Jordan on the Bulls for 5 years prior to Jackson becoming Head Coach.
Bryant with the Lakers for 3 years prior to Jackson becoming Head Coach.
Before you come out with such bullshit .
Know your history.
Red had Bill Russell for most of his Championships.
W/O Russell RED HAS AT LEAST 8 LESS RINGS AND THE LAKERS WOULD HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THEN THEM.
The flaw here is that we can\'t just erase Bill Russell. In the 1956 Draft, the Celtics ended up with Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell and K.C. Jones. Suppose they didn\'t end up with Russell; they could have ended up with Elgin Baylor.
Likewise, what if the Rockets drafted Michael Jordan and the Bulls drafted Hakeem Olajuwon in 1984? Or what if Charles Barkley went to Portland with the No. 2 pick that year?
Also, let\'s say the Charlotte Hornets didn\'t trade Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac on draft day in 1996.
I guess the point is that you can\'t just create an alternate world where every single draft pick, trade and other decision is held constant except for one player being on one team.
Facts are facts. Red had a slew of future Hall of Famers. So did Phil Jackson. So did Pat Riley. Likewise, Jordan had Pippen, Ruth had Gehrig and Abbott had Costello.
This discussion (or any other "greatest of all-time" discussion) is good, healthy conversation, and when it comes to sports, I could do it all day. But we can\'t all pretend that we know the answer.
Oh, and congrats Lakers fans. I don\'t think I\'ve said that yet today.
Before you come out with such bullshit .
Know your history.
Red had Bill Russell for most of his Championships.
W/O Russell RED HAS AT LEAST 8 LESS RINGS AND THE LAKERS WOULD HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THEN THEM.
The flaw here is that we can\'t just erase Bill Russell. In the 1956 Draft, the Celtics ended up with Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell and K.C. Jones. Suppose they didn\'t end up with Russell; they could have ended up with Elgin Baylor.
Likewise, what if the Rockets drafted Michael Jordan and the Bulls drafted Hakeem Olajuwon in 1984? Or what if Charles Barkley went to Portland with the No. 2 pick that year?
Also, let\'s say the Charlotte Hornets didn\'t trade Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac on draft day in 1996.
I guess the point is that you can\'t just create an alternate world where every single draft pick, trade and other decision is held constant except for one player being on one team.
Facts are facts. Red had a slew of future Hall of Famers. So did Phil Jackson. So did Pat Riley. Likewise, Jordan had Pippen, Ruth had Gehrig and Abbott had Costello.
This discussion (or any other "greatest of all-time" discussion) is good, healthy conversation, and when it comes to sports, I could do it all day. But we can\'t all pretend that we know the answer.
Oh, and congrats Lakers fans. I don\'t think I\'ve said that yet today.
What a diplomat Mr.Kingsley is!
And to answer Leith and Spacey....yes, I know who Phil Jackson is AND was. Put Phil Jackson in a team with no super star and i want to see him win a ring.
A coach is only as good as his team. (i.e. Pat Riley coaches the Knicks for years and couldn\'t get a ring, because i believe Ewing wasn\'t a true superstar...and i was a huge Knicks fan of that era.....but Riley when he was at the lakers, he had johnson=rings.)
No superstar=no ring.
Doesn\'t take a great coach. Just takes a good coach.
NCAA and NBA are two different things, but i can think of five NCAA coaches that are WAY better than Phil Jackson.
i can think of five NCAA coaches that are WAY better than Phil Jackson.
....
(if you say coach k i will punch you in the face)
No effing way. I hate Duke.
Before you come out with such bullshit .
Know your history.
Red had Bill Russell for most of his Championships.
W/O Russell RED HAS AT LEAST 8 LESS RINGS AND THE LAKERS WOULD HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THEN THEM.
The flaw here is that we can\'t just erase Bill Russell. In the 1956 Draft, the Celtics ended up with Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell and K.C. Jones. Suppose they didn\'t end up with Russell; they could have ended up with Elgin Baylor.
Likewise, what if the Rockets drafted Michael Jordan and the Bulls drafted Hakeem Olajuwon in 1984? Or what if Charles Barkley went to Portland with the No. 2 pick that year?
Also, let\'s say the Charlotte Hornets didn\'t trade Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac on draft day in 1996.
I guess the point is that you can\'t just create an alternate world where every single draft pick, trade and other decision is held constant except for one player being on one team.
Facts are facts. Red had a slew of future Hall of Famers. So did Phil Jackson. So did Pat Riley. Likewise, Jordan had Pippen, Ruth had Gehrig and Abbott had Costello.
This discussion (or any other "greatest of all-time" discussion) is good, healthy conversation, and when it comes to sports, I could do it all day. But we can\'t all pretend that we know the answer.
Oh, and congrats Lakers fans. I don\'t think I\'ve said that yet today.
What a diplomat Mr.Kinglsey is!
And to answer Leith and Spacey....yes, I know who Phil Jackson is AND was. Put Phil Jackson in a team with no super star and i want to see him win a ring.
A coach is only as good as his team. (i.e. Pat Riley coaches the Knicks for years and couldn\'t get a ring, because i believe Ewing wasn\'t a true superstar...and i was a huge Knicks fan of that era.....but Riley when he was at the lakers, he had johnson=rings.)
No superstar=no ring.
Doesn\'t take a great coach. Just takes a good coach.
NCAA and NBA are two different things, but i can think of five NCAA coaches that are WAY better than Phil Jackson.
Well your Basketball knowledge is very suspect but why don\'t you go ahead and back that ridiculous claim.
Oh and that\'s an idiotic statement about seeing Phil win w/o a super star.
Name a coach that has.
Oh wait you can\'t.
DUH!!!!!
Top 10 Head Coaches in NBA History per NBA.COM
Red Auerbach 938 wins 479 losses (.662)
Chuck Daly 638 wins 437 losses (.593)
Bill Fitch 944 wins 1106 losses (.460)
Red Holzman 696 wins 604 losses (.535)
Phil Jackson 1026 wins 431 losses
(.704) John Kundla 423 wins 302 losses (.583)
Don Nelson 1301 wins 996 losses (.566)
Jack Ramsay 864 wins 783 losses (.525)
Pat Riley 1210 wins 694 losses (.636)
Lenny Wilkens 1332 wins 1155 losses (.536)
Only one of those guys has 10 rings as Head Coach.
I\'m still thinking tennessee and unconn womens have to be pretty high numbers for finals appearences.
Before you come out with such bullshit .
Know your history.
Red had Bill Russell for most of his Championships.
W/O Russell RED HAS AT LEAST 8 LESS RINGS AND THE LAKERS WOULD HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THEN THEM.
The flaw here is that we can\'t just erase Bill Russell. In the 1956 Draft, the Celtics ended up with Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Russell and K.C. Jones. Suppose they didn\'t end up with Russell; they could have ended up with Elgin Baylor.
Likewise, what if the Rockets drafted Michael Jordan and the Bulls drafted Hakeem Olajuwon in 1984? Or what if Charles Barkley went to Portland with the No. 2 pick that year?
Also, let\'s say the Charlotte Hornets didn\'t trade Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac on draft day in 1996.
I guess the point is that you can\'t just create an alternate world where every single draft pick, trade and other decision is held constant except for one player being on one team.
Facts are facts. Red had a slew of future Hall of Famers. So did Phil Jackson. So did Pat Riley. Likewise, Jordan had Pippen, Ruth had Gehrig and Abbott had Costello.
This discussion (or any other "greatest of all-time" discussion) is good, healthy conversation, and when it comes to sports, I could do it all day. But we can\'t all pretend that we know the answer.
Oh, and congrats Lakers fans. I don\'t think I\'ve said that yet today.
What a diplomat Mr.Kingsley is!
And to answer Leith and Spacey....yes, I know who Phil Jackson is AND was. Put Phil Jackson in a team with no super star and i want to see him win a ring.
A coach is only as good as his team. (i.e. Pat Riley coaches the Knicks for years and couldn\'t get a ring, because i believe Ewing wasn\'t a true superstar...and i was a huge Knicks fan of that era.....but Riley when he was at the lakers, he had johnson=rings.)
No superstar=no ring.
Doesn\'t take a great coach. Just takes a good coach.
NCAA and NBA are two different things, but i can think of five NCAA coaches that are WAY better than Phil Jackson.
Name the 5 coaches?
What happened to Rick Pitino when he went to the NBA? Great NCAA coach and he failed miserably. Happens in NCAA football as well aka Steve Spurrier.
Just because you excel at the NCAA level does not transfer to success at the NBA level.
There for your 5 NCAA coaches that are way better than Jackson is really moot.
But please, name them.
This is not a knock or anything like that. Did you ever play HS or College sports?
I\'m still thinking tennessee and unconn womens have to be pretty high numbers for finals appearences.
We are talking NBA not NCAA. I am sure that both teams combined have a nice average.
This is probably an all sports question, but I\'ll ask it here... Why do fans have to riot and loot after a team wins a national championship in a sport? I belive that this happened in LA over the past couple of days. Doesn\'t make any sense to me...
This is probably an all sports question, but I\'ll ask it here... Why do fans have to riot and loot after a team wins a national championship in a sport? I belive that this happened in LA over the past couple of days. Doesn\'t make any sense to me...
Because the world is filled with idiots.
That is the simple answer.
Some will probably say booze or drugs had something to do with it.
I\'m still thinking tennessee and unconn womens have to be pretty high numbers for finals appearences.
Not even bringing the NBA into the discussion, the disparity in competition between men\'s and women\'s basketball is so great that they can\'t even be compared. The women\'s NCAA tournament has only been comprised of 64 teams since 1994, and the seeding is regionalized so perennial powerhouses like Tennessee, Connecticut and Stanford are generally only playing a few hours from home until the Final Four. Pat Summitt is a great women\'s basketball coach. But in the same way that you can\'t compare Phil Jackson\'s accomplishments to those of John Wooden, you can\'t compare Pat Summitt\'s accomplishments to either.
But to answer your question, Pat has guided Tennessee to every NCAA Tournament (started in 1982), all but one Regional Semifinal, 18 Final Fours and eight national championships. Geno Auriemma has been to 10 Final Fours with six national championships. Between the two of them, that\'s half of the 28 NCAA Championships, and both coaches get top five recruiting classes every year. Is that a sign of dominance or just an uneven playing field? Other schools are starting to take women\'s basketball more seriously, but they find themselves so far behind the curve that it\'s going to take decades to catch up.
what a year.
fantastic playoffs. some good games in the finals, but i\'m glad it didn\'t go 6 or 7. we had enough drama in the previous 2 rounds, and i wanted to see this one end early.
i\'ve never watched a game in a more fun setting (without actually being there). cinema tent at bonnaroo was packed with people. lots of laker fans, and lots of magic fans (or just people rooting against the lakers in general). i got video of the final minute to have a memory of where i was when it happened. very awesome.
please bring back ariza AND odom.
It\'s amazing how things change so quickly. A month ago everyone was saying how the Lakers couldn\'t win on the road, they had no heart, they didn\'t play defense, Pau was soft, and Fisher was done. And there was certainly a fair amount of evidence to support these claims.
But the truth is the Lakers benefited from these criticisms and shortcomings and became a better team as the playoffs wore on. Now, they\'re the 2009 NBA champions, an accomplishment which will remain etched in stone for eternity. To me, the turning point was winning Game 3 at Denver, a game the Lakers trailed throughout and yet found a way to win in the fourth, displaying the toughness that many thought they didn\'t have.
Obviously, Kobe and Phil add to their already brilliant, Hall of Fame careers and one of the most enjoyable things I\'ve ever witnessed as a sports fan has been watching Kobe\'s progression, developing from someone who played to shoot to a leader who plays to win.
In other news, Pau more than held his own against Dwight Howard and actually outplayed him in several stretches. It helps when your big guy can actually hit a shot from outside 10 feet, let alone a free throw.
But to me, the biggest difference between last season and this one for the Lakers was the improved play of Lamar Odom and the emergence of Trevor Ariza. Odom was a presence in the paint and Ariza was a clutch three-point machine. Meanwhile, Odom did pretty well from beyond the arc himself.
And speaking of clutch threes, the Lakers probably still win the series, but who knows what happens if not for Derek Fisher nailing the biggest shot of the postseason at the end of Game 4. I love how it\'s not just Kobe and Phil, but also Fisher, who came into the league with Kobe in \'96, who\'s a tie-in to the Lakers\' championship teams from earlier this decade. It\'s funny. The Lakers didn\'t have Fisher for three years in between these title runs and did nothing special in any of those three.
Anyway, the Los Angeles Lakers are the best team in the National Basketball Association for the year 2009. Feels great to say. Feels even greater coming off the heartbreak of last season. And for me, this run started right after last year\'s finals, with the Olympics, where Kobe\'s U.S.A. team and Pau\'s squad from Spain met in the gold medal game, one of the best basketball contests I\'ve ever seen, with both guys having great games and neither backing down from the other, despite being teammates. In fact, when the U.S.A. and Spain played in the preliminary round, Kobe knocked Pau on his ass and then walked right over him instead of shaking his hand.
After seeing that, and how Kobe was obviously going to step up his determination and competitiveness even more this year, I knew us Lakers\' fans had a special season in store. And the fact that I know I was there through it all, from the ground up, much as my fellow Lakers\' fans on this board were, whether it was a preseason game against Oklahoma City, a regular season game with the Clippers, the Lakers stopping the Celtics win streak on Christmas, Kobe scoring 61 at the Garden, the Lakers being the first team to win at Cleveland, and course, all the great moments of the postseason, right to the point where Bill Russell of all people handed Kobe the MVP trophy, is what makes me feel fantastic about the Lakers winning.
When you absorb the agony of your team losing, that\'s when you truly deserve to revel in the thrill of them winning.
Go Lakers!
enjoy the offseason. don\'t know if you read bill simmons (boston guy/laker hater), but he just posted a pretty interesting article about kobe\'s "transformation" and the lakers\' season. he hits on some of the points you made (the emergence of pau/ariza/odom). but mostly it\'s about kobe not being a different player than last year...just a better cast around him.
columnWhen you absorb the agony of your team losing, that\'s when you truly deserve to revel in the thrill of them winning.
so when the mets win the world series, can we expect you literally burst into flames?
