-
Quote from: Matt o;156736
1. I want to hear what success for this band would look like to you
1. I want to hear reasons why you would like this to happen(if you would)
2. I want to hear what you want from the band or what you want to see the band do(I guarantee we will not make everyone happy- but we will do our best)
3. I believe success is already on its way to this band- I\'m just not sure where it\'s coming from yet. I want to hear stories of how you see this band getting the success that is coming to them. (make up a story - how do you think it will happen - because we need ideas)
1&2. I think success for The Breakfast (read: long term goals) should really be decided by the band members and anyone else on the payroll. I\'m happy with whatever goals they set. I think they should earn enough to have whatever they deem to be a good income and health care. For whatever my personal opinion is worth, I\'d like to see them get to Disco Biscuits level. (The selfish side of me and many others would like to see them peak there and not make the leap to Cheese/Widespread level because it\'s just too much effort to be a fan at that point. But I can\'t ask for that. That would be like a coach telling his players not to play hard. Can\'t do it.) Here is what this level is in specific, attainable, and measurable goals:
A. Play Bonnaroo in 2008
B. Top-3 Headliner of a festival of 3,000+ people in 2008, 5,000+ people in 2009, and top-5 headline a 10,000+ festival by summer of 2011.
C. Start their own festival by 2012. Draw 3,000 by 2015.
D. In 2008, Tim should be able to do a 10-show northeast regional solo tour and sell 75+ tickets a night.
E. By the end of 2008 have sold out Toad\'s, Knitting Factory, Middle East Downstairs, Iron Horse, and Higher Ground. I haven\'t seen the band in the midwest or west coast since 2002, but similar goals can be set there.
F. By end of summer 2009 have headlined Pearl Street Downstairs, Paradise, Bowery Ballroom, and similar small theaters in upstate NY. Think Phish circa 1991.
G. By 2011 have steady crowds of 1,000 on East Coast, 750 elsewhere. $2,500 minimum pay per gig.
H. Tim and Adrian should be household names and generally positioned and marketed as such. Reid Genaur, Brendan Bayliss, Aaron Katz, Carter Beauford, etc....all names that you associate with a certain band and outside of that band. Tim and Adrian should be at a similar level.
3. I gotta give it to you Matt, this question is simultaneously brilliant and disturbing. I love your asking fans to paint a success story. That\'s a great idea, I\'m going to use it at work : ) I\'m scared that you don\'t know where the success is going to come from. There should be short-term goals in place that lead to long term goals, that\'s where it comes from. Speaking of which...
Story #1:
Try tweaking the goals I wrote above, then post them on your desk and in the van and in every guy\'s instrument case, and even on here so you\'re really liable for them. Don\'t let anyone forget it. There\'s a story: The Day The Breakfast Set Specific Measurable Goals And Posted Them Everywhere. I have told EVERYONE I know about how I\'m running a half-marathon on October 7th and how I\'m going to break 2 hours. Boy am I liable now! I have my 10-week training schedule posted in 3 places. I\'ve never run more than 7 miles before, but I\'m going to do it.
Story #2:
The band has never really had any PR whatsoever. Not since the days of the free sticker (98-01) has there ever been a feel-good story off the stage. Start your own charity and mention it in all communication. Supporting another charity is nice but it\'s cliche and promotes that charity more than the band. Ever heard of Strangers Helping Strangers or the Waterwheel? Of course you have. Now that\'s PR. Not only do people latch onto bands that do this sort of thing, but when it\'s your own thing it promotes the band too. It doesn\'t have to be a lot of work either, just mention it in all communication and keep it simple to execute, such as "$1 from every T-shirt purchased goes to support the Breakfast For Breast Cancer Fund." Have occasional shows that are very campaign-heavy, or do something light every show the way SHS offered a ticket discount to people bringing food items to every Strangefolk show for years. Just promote the living hell out of it. It should be like the 5th member of the band.
Story #3:
Here\'s a promo idea I posted eons ago, probably on the old yahoo fangroup. Have a Taper Appreciation Night. Give a discounted or free ticket and free blank media to anyone taping the show. Do it in a 2nd-tier market for the band, like somplace in the midwest. Then promote the balls out of it like it\'s the biggest event in band history. Because it IS the biggest event in band history, dammit : ) It matters not if 5 or 50 tapers come to that show. What matters is that every taper and fan from coast to coast hears about it. That\'s how to win people. There\'s 200 jambands at Breakfast level playing good shows every night. There are very, very few doing this type of stuff. This is how to differentiate.
Speaking of which...
Story #4:
The key word in Breakfast marketing needs to be DIFFERENTIATION. It\'s too $&^%ing hard to differentiate yourself on a strictly musical basis. We\'ve been trying that for 8 years and it doesn\'t work. There are way too many acts out there for most people to have any time to figure out what is what. It takes time and a lot of listening for the average fan to differentiate jambands musically, and we are living in a generation of short-attention-span theater. Sure, you and I and anyone reading this knows The Breakfast rocks harder than anyone else, but obviously the rate at which most people figure this out is VERY slow. Unless you\'re Mars Volta or Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey or some other completely far out act whose sound is instantly, utterly, and dangerously unique to absolutely anyone who hears it, you need to differentiate some other way. Compared to most competing bands, the Breakfast musically are different (and superior) but they\'re not different enough. Let\'s just be honest about it. The Breakfast are instantly, utterly, and dangerously unique to the people on this board, but it\'s taken 9 years to create maybe 200 of us. 95% of people listen to them and lump them in with 100 other good bands. That rate ain\'t cutting it. We need to differentiate through PR campaigns and by promoting Tim.
Speaking of which...
Story #5:
Tim Palmieri should be a household name. People should be going to see Tim. They don\'t have to be in love with the whole Breakfast package but they should fall over for Breakfast tickets to see Tim. Remember when Strangefolk had Reid? A lot of people went to Strangefolk to see Reid, the rest of the band be damned. I\'ve seen the Flecktones over 20 times and there is no question that half the crowd is there to see Victor Wooten even if the other Flecktones were Moe, Larry, and Curly. (Ad is good enough but it\'s impossible to promote a drummer and get any value. It\'s even hard to do for a superduperstar. Case in point: Pork Tornado w/ Jon Fishman never exactly packed the house, and that was Jon Fishman.) Tim\'s solo success can really help promote The Breakfast. This is a real opportunity that must stretch beyond New Haven. (Sorry guys!) Get Tim 5-10 night runs around New England. Pair him up with another name if necessary, like someone from RAQ or whoever. But get Tim Palmieri the brand name out there. Individual Starpower is another point of differentiation available to The Breakfast that is not available to other bands. Now to make use of it...
Story #6:
I did 5 issues of a fan newsletter called Breakfast Digest last year. I stopped because I paid $80 an issue out-of-pocket to print it and I can\'t afford to print it anymore. They\'re still up on here, take a look or I\'ll email them to you. They\'re actually really good if I do say so myself. Let me know if you\'ll fund it and I\'ll get back on it. Again, differentiation. The only band I know of that has a steady by-fans-for-fans newsletter is Umph, that\'s where I got the idea.
That\'s it. Wow, 105 minutes typing this post. Thanks for reading and great posting everyone! -
-
Wolfy-good stuff. Give me something printable and I\'ll print it.
P.S. I think Tim is well on his way doing what you described.
I\'m feeling excitement and momentum I haven\'t felt in a long time! -
-
Great post Wolf!!
-
-
Thanks Mark and Todd! That post felt really good. Looks like I need to fire up the Digest Machine. See, things are happening already
BTW Matt O try this drill: At the next band meeting, have everyone brainstorm together a list of 50 ways that The Breakfast is different from any other band. It doesn\'t matter what people blurt out, write it all down. Then whittle it down to 5 reasons that are the most meaningful/marketable/endearing/funny/wild/powerful. These 5 points are now your core marketing messages to be put everywhere, especially in band bios and presskits.
Heck, I\'ll even go start that thread for you on here.... -
-
Quote from: Wolfman;157060
Looks like I need to fire up the Digest Machine.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:Quote from: Wolfman;157060BTW Matt O try this drill: At the next band meeting, have everyone brainstorm together a list of 50 ways that The Breakfast is different from any other band. It doesn\'t matter what people blurt out, write it all down. Then whittle it down to 5 reasons that are the most meaningful/marketable/endearing/funny/wild/powerful. These 5 points are now your core marketing messages to be put everywhere, especially in band bios and presskits.
GREAT idea!! -
-
Quote from: Todd
GREAT idea!!
Thanks, can you tell I\'m in marketing for a living?
The fan version of this activity is now up here: http://thebreakfast.info/forum/showthread.php?t=10413 -
-
I\'m changing my advice to "do whatever Wolfman says"
-
-
So far after talking to a lot of people and reading the first 56 posts, here are the ideas that seem to come up the most. I did not include the ideas that the band has already talked about and decided can not work for one reason or another:
1. set up some good sit-ins that generate buzz
2. a new 4 piece album with good production quality
3. keep being eclectic in music choices
4. tour more and hit the same towns more often so we don\'t have to start over in building an audience each time we return.
5. reach the younger crowds - college and highschool play under 21 shows in college towns.
6.think about other fan bases besides the jam band scene - rock(ozzfest), bluegrass
7.instant live - sell recordings at shows
8. network with alot of different bands and be friendly to everybody(get a positive reputation in the scenes)
9. do more obscure and interesting covers(like echidna\'s arf)
10.certain songs and styles people don\'t really want us to play. tricky ways comes up most often. let me see what the guys say about that.
11.more "spectacle" ie audience interaction, visual stuff, antics (I\'m really into this idea!)
12.set up your own charity fund (The Breakfast Foundation) support local charities
13. vocal training for band
14. we may have audiences in Oneonta, Atlanta, Hartford, and the UK
This is the first list that I will go over with the band.
BIG THANK YOUS!! -
-
bring back the puppet house!!
love ideas 2, 4, and 11-13. don\'t "shelve" anything completely, come with more new stuff so that tricky ways gets heard less. i def. got at least 5 for any charity at every show, especially if it is an original charity ie: "the breakfast foundation". a new album, or even a live one, would build word of mouth to push the new 4-piece towards a groundbreaking \'08 spring and summer. in the meantime, there is nothing better than seeing a phenomenally talented original band have fun on stage. good times to come and thank you matt. -
-
Hooking up with bands that play bigger venues and pack them is the most important thing in my opinion. I still dont understand why The Breakfast has not broken through to bands like Umphrey\'s, moe, the Biscuits, Tea Leaf Green, even Denson, etc. It seems like these bands have formed a network with a huge amount of support for eachother. That results in fans of one band almost immediately becoming serious fans for the others. They\'ll see Josh Clark hop on stage with Umphrey\'s for an extended solo and immediately \'fall in love\' all over again with a new branch of this scene, in this case TLG.
This band has arguably the tightest jams out there right now and if they\'re exposed to the right people at the right time **** will happen. Camp Bisco announcement exciting? Of course, but not when it\'s an earlier day show and you have a bunch of fried chickens walking around pissed off at the sun for beating them up. The music just doesn\'t matter for most then. Sad, really, but true. Sometimes I wonder if it\'s an issue with the band not opening up to other bands in some form? Does TB have a bad rep. with the bigger names in the scene or what? I don\'t know, but I wonder. A show like UStorm in Chicago would\'ve been PERFECT for this band to show up and mingle with all the phenomenal musicians all night long. The music is there at every show, not sure where the people are. And if, in the future, the band opens up for The Disco Biscuits, put a heavier focus on the dance-trance each set. If it\'s Umphrey\'s, thump out more hard rock and shred for the so-called \'Umphreaks\'. Denson, funk and jazz. The beauty of this band is that this wouldn\'t be selling out given the fact that TB pulls off every sound so well. It\'s rather a showcase of one monster you guys possess. Then, gradually, people download shows and start realizing they want The Breakfast\'s set to go on all night. Then there won\'t have to be an emphasis on a specific sound given the crowd at all. They\'ll be there for The Breakfast and ALL of their sounds.
A gradual process for sure but this problem has dragged on way too long for talent this strong. I finally downloaded the show from Toad\'s and haven\'t been this excited for a show since TB in \'05 when I originally dove head first into their sound and scene. Matt -- I\'m shocked at how well you already fit in and add that missing ingredient. Honestly, I couldn\'t believe it at first listen. And with a thread like this it is clear the band could not have made a better addition. Man that organ is what I\'ve been missing! I\'m already scared to see where this band will take their music in the not-so-far future....... Now have someone go and call UM\'s or tDB\'s management, weave your way into the bigger scene. ****, cover one of their tunes, that\'ll get a buzz going for sure. Alright, I\'m done.Quote from: Wolfman;157060Thanks Mark and Todd! That post felt really good. Looks like I need to fire up the Digest Machine. See, things are happening already
BTW Matt O try this drill: At the next band meeting, have everyone brainstorm together a list of 50 ways that The Breakfast is different from any other band. It doesn\'t matter what people blurt out, write it all down. Then whittle it down to 5 reasons that are the most meaningful/marketable/endearing/funny/wild/powerful. These 5 points are now your core marketing messages to be put everywhere, especially in band bios and presskits.
Heck, I\'ll even go start that thread for you on here....
Great call Wolfman. I like where your head\'s at.
And the other above that Wolf. Wow, I\'m going through this thread backwards and you have great ideas. Funny too how I talked about focusing on a sound based on the headliner and you stressed differentiation. I agree and think that (ironically) both could be fulfilled in the same set. -
-
no offense but playing trance to try to hook disco biscuit fans is really lame and pointless in my mind. Be much better off playing the breakfast to young audiences who haven\'t been sold on other styles yet. Trying leech off other band\'s fan base by imitating their style is just weak sauce. Collaborate with them, sure, but don\'t expect to win over people who are already committed devoted to another style, community, scene, etc. Phish is the perfect example. They were the next big thing after the dead, but their fan base didn\'t come from ex dead heads who heard phish and realized phish was better. It came from college kids who were looking for something they could call their own.
-
-
Quote from: Klout;157170
no offense but playing trance to try to hook disco biscuit fans is really lame and pointless in my mind. Be much better off playing the breakfast to young audiences who haven\'t been sold on other styles yet. Trying leech off other band\'s fan base by imitating their style is just weak sauce. Collaborate with them, sure, but don\'t expect to win over people who are already committed devoted to another style, community, scene, etc. Phish is the perfect example. They were the next big thing after the dead, but their fan base didn\'t come from ex dead heads who heard phish and realized phish was better. It came from college kids who were looking for something they could call their own.
i disagree. for one the Biscuits audience (along with TB\'s) is young and the dance-jam scene, or whatever you want to call it, is very much established and part of the overall jamband scene. these kids show up to hear the drummer groove that high hat all night. whether or not it is or isn\'t your cup of tea if they were to open for the Biscuits i think they should have a more dance beat theme to their set. and i hope youre not misinterpreting my thoughts as if they should hop on stage and just throw out Biscuits carbon copies, im suggesting they pencil in tunes like Buquebus, Over Exposure, Gravity, etc. Songs that open up into drawn out dance-trance type jams. Their style is still different but some unknowing fans might fall for the band once they hear them pull off a huge groove in the spirit of the band they bought their ticket for. i tried to make the point that it isn\'t leeching by imitation. it\'s still their own music and theyre able to hone in to all sounds so well. just like it\'d be a bad idea playing Drunk Monk Bar at Denson but probably a great choice before TLG took the stage. if you still disagree with what im saying then we will always disagree in this matter which is fine. btw, didnt Phish start as a Dead-cover band? -
-
I respect your opinion but I personally feel like trying to turn on bisco fans to the breakfast is a waste of time and energy. If anything was ever going to happen there would have been a buzz within the bisco scene about the breakfast after the camp bisco set. There wasn\'t. Bisco fans are excited about new bands like Digifront that play more cheesey untz untz untz crap. THey dont give a **** about the breakfast. The majority would rather see some DJ spin techno than the breakfast. The breakfast needs to reach out to the younger generation and start their own following, not look to the bisco drones for support. They are a lost cause.
-
-
If anything Breakfast should be served to the Umphrey\'s fanbase on a regular basis.....
-
-
Quote from: TreyChica;157190
If anything Breakfast should be served to the Umphrey\'s fanbase on a regular basis.....
I agree a hundge %. Breakfast + UM = a perfect match. -