San Francisco approves plastic-bag ban

[derickw]

i,ve thought recently about riding a bike to work my only problem is i don\'t have a bike.... probably make sence to buy one at this point plus i could use the exercise:bantom:

[skalnbyc]

While I have made the choice to bring my own canvas Trader Joe\'s bags to the supermarket (they are much more durable than the plastic bags), this is another example of SF over regulating everything.  From mandating that employers pay sick leave to hourly employees (more likely to be abused, just ask Freespirit), providing illegals with health insurance, trying to ban guns from all citizens (thus leaving them defenseless to criminals and in opposition of the Bill of Rights) and paying for sex change operations for city employees etc; SF is clearly advancing a socialistic, less free society.  

Why should the rest of the country care?  Because California\'s social engineering becomes a blueprint for other cities and states to try.  There is even a law pending in a nearby city that bans smoking everywhere except one\'s single-family, detached home (smoking in condos, cars, open spaces etc. would be illegal).  

Where will it end?  Wait till some radical biking group organizes and decides that the tens of thousands of auto deaths each year should mandate the end of the automobile.  

Will the end of the plastic bag mark a brighter day in SF?  Maybe ever-so-marginally (especially since most chain supermarkets already provide bins for plastic bag recycling), but the more important lesson to me is that no industry, no activity, no freedom is safe from radical social engineering.

[bdfreetuna]

What does it mean to the economy.

Environment > Economy

Besides, the economy\'s doing "great" while the gap between the rich and the poor exponentiates. Let\'s replace the Dow, S&P500, and GDP with a realisitic indicator of quality of life, and get on with it.

Not to mention if they have to use a more expensive bag it means higher costs at check out.

Canvas bag = one time $5 investment.

Stupid if you ask me. Just means more low income people out of work.

I doubt many people in this country are hand stiching these plastic bags. Most likely a machine in China.

Why don\'t the ever do anything important. Perhaps they could have congress revisit the miles per gallon rules on cars and trucks, things that would really impact everyone.

Agreed, this is a small step. But there are many small steps to be made alongside the giant leaps that must also take place if we are going to salvage this planet.

It\'s about time our culture embrace a little sacrifice. And I\'m not talking about sacrificing our rights or Constitution....

While I have made the choice to bring my own canvas Trader Joe\'s bags to the supermarket (they are much more durable than the plastic bags), this is another example of SF over regulating everything.  From mandating that employers pay sick leave to hourly employees (more likely to be abused, just ask Freespirit), providing illegals with health insurance, trying to ban guns from all citizens (thus leaving them defenseless to criminals and in opposition of the Bill of Rights) and paying for sex change operations for city employees etc; SF is clearly advancing a socialistic, less free society.

Okay some of those things, (like paying for employee sex changes :lol: ) are a little over the top.

But I do agree with some of the policies you cite as socialistic and unfree. Anyway, it\'s San Francisco, so, like, what do you expect? You call it socialistic but I see this as a free city choosing their own path. There is a reason all these measures are being taken in San Francisco and not nescessarily other places: the citizens of San Francisco largely support these measures.

There are plenty of places in America for those with opposing ideologies.

And BTW, the reason it\'s important to protect the right to carry arms isn\'t because of the occasional burgular...

it\'s to protect yourself against the rise of the neo-fascist police state!

[skalnbyc]

Agreed, this is a small step. But there are many small steps to be made alongside the giant leaps that must also take place if we are going to salvage this planet.!

I agree with you here BD, I just prefer less government intervention (or to be dramatic strangulation) in achieving stated goal. People really do need to think about the effects of their personal consumption (overconsumption in many cases).  Even the millions of people who waste small quantities of food can have have an impact on commodity prices and every good one buys contributes to emissions, waste and congestion along the supply chain.

[FreeSpirit]

From mandating that employers pay sick leave to hourly employees (more likely to be abused, just ask Freespirit)

hey.........

well,:lol:, i guess you do actually have a valid point!

Agreed, this is a small step. But there are many small steps to be made alongside the giant leaps that must also take place if we are going to salvage this planet.

I really like the benefits of plastic bags vs. paper or canvas.  Sure, I care about the environment, but paper bags are easily ripped and soggy in the rain.  Also, as mentioned before, paper bags come from trees -- so I think this defeats the purpose of saving the environment.  Canvas bags would mean that I\'d have to actually plan my grocery trips instead of going to the store on a whim, or keep them all packed in my already over-crowded car.  

One user-friendly program I like is Stop & Shop\'s "Peapod Delivery" service... the groceries are ordered online, & brought into your home in plastic bins.  I\'ve used it a few times and really like the fact that it saves you from loading/unloading bags of groceries and also saves time from the frenzied shoppers, clerks, & baggers! :awwyeah:

[bdfreetuna]

Canvas bags would mean that I\'d have to actually plan my grocery trips instead of going to the store on a whim, or keep them all packed in my already over-crowded car.

That\'s the kind of minor "sacrifice" I\'d argue we all need to start getting used to making on a regular basis.

As well as extending this mentality far beyond trips to the grocery store.

Besides you can be stylin\' with this headie hemp shopping bag:


apparently whereever this dude shops its "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Problem!"

[FrankZappa]

Where will it end?  Wait till some radical biking group organizes and decides that the tens of thousands of auto deaths each year should mandate the end of the automobile.

:chin: :hehehe:

And BTW, the reason it\'s important to protect the right to carry arms isn\'t because of the occasional burgular...

it\'s to protect yourself against the rise of the neo-fascist police state!

You couldn\'t be more wrong, Lisa. If I didn\'t have this gun, the king of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around. Do you want that? Huh? Do you?

I agree with you here BD, I just prefer less government intervention (or to be dramatic strangulation) in achieving stated goal.

Main Entry: lib·er·tar·i·an
Pronunciation: "li-b&r-\'ter-E-&n, -\'te-rE-
Function: noun
1 : an advocate of the doctrine of free will
2 a : a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles
- libertarian adjective
- lib·er·tar·i·an·ism  /-E-&-"ni-z&m/ noun

[postom]

if the ban happens countrywide tomorrow, i\'m sure that my roommate and i could provide .info with all the plastic bags they need for the next 10 years or so.  we have that many.  they also work well reused as packing material

[Mamalakabubadaya]

Why don\'t the ever do anything important. Perhaps they could have congress revisit the miles per gallon rules on cars and trucks, things that would really impact everyone.

i completely agree. this is such a larger issue that needs to be addressed.

And BTW, the reason it\'s important to protect the right to carry arms isn\'t because of the occasional burgular...

it\'s to protect yourself against the rise of the neo-fascist police state!

:rolleyes: oh god...

it\'s important to protect the right to carry arms because it\'s a right, it has nothing to do with this "neo-fascist police state" or whatever you want to call it. i don\'t have a gun, but i\'ll take that right simply because it is a right that i should have. it\'s a much larger issue if the government wants to begin regulating that right more so than the issue of guns in general. (if) the second the government starts making moves on taking gun rights away (which it won\'t, because that would never go over) i will personally go out and buy a large quantity of weapons.

also, as much as i reuse plastic shopping bags until they are basically full of holes/rips, i would like to have the choice of using them rather than just have a ban on them all together.

[estahwhaddup]

all this talk reminds me of that south park episode "smug alert"

[leith]

:sigh: While I think this is great for the environment, I prefer getting paper inside plastic bags when I go food shopping.  I always reuse the plastic bags until they rip.  According to this law, now I\'ll either have to use only paper or buy tons of canvas bags?  Seems a little unfair.

ahh wahhhhhhhh

i do paper in plastic as well.

it\'s all part of my grand scheme to destroy the universe.

Of course

i completely agree. this is such a larger issue that needs to be addressed.


:rolleyes: oh god...

it\'s important to protect the right to carry arms because it\'s a right, it has nothing to do with this "neo-fascist police state" or whatever you want to call it. i don\'t have a gun, but i\'ll take that right simply because it is a right that i should have. it\'s a much larger issue if the government wants to begin regulating that right more so than the issue of guns in general. (if) the second the government starts making moves on taking gun rights away (which it won\'t, because that would never go over) i will personally go out and buy a large quantity of weapons.

also, as much as i reuse plastic shopping bags until they are basically full of holes/rips, i would like to have the choice of using them rather than just have a ban on them all together.

Holly that "right to bear arms" is now not what it was intended to be. Really.

Choices are nice yes and one part of this measure that seems to be missed by the whiners is giving grocers the choice to offer biodegradable plastic bags also. They have not banned plastic completely.

Sheesh people read.

[kindm's]

Well.

When I shop I do so in bulk because I shop for more than 1 person.

1 canvass bag will not hold all my groceries. So I will need several. So the up front cost is there for a lot of people.

My best friend is in the ink and polymer business. He prints on those plastic bags that you get everywhere. Grocery stores, rite aid anywhere you get a plastic bag they do that kind of printing. So it will cut in to his business. If a lot of states follow suit that means layoffs. What kind of environmental impact does making canvass bags have ?

Plastic bags are manufactured here. Canvass bags that have to be sewn will not be. How long does it take canvass to decompose ?

A right to bare arms is a right. I don\'t care what any of you socialist / communists think but it is a right. The right to hold arms to protect against tyranny from with in is not a right I would ever want to see taken away PERIOD. I don\'t currently own a gun but if feel confident in the fact that I could go out and purchase one if I wanted.

[bdfreetuna]

:rolleyes: oh god...

Unusual reaction for somebody who basically agrees with my statement...

I mean, you make a post like you\'re rolling your eyes at my statement, but then you go on to describe one element of exactly what I\'m talking about. :shrug:

[oldnewbie]

i just want to know, if i go to cali and buy a bag of **** and carry it out in a banned plastic grocery bag in order to conceal it, am i more likely to be busted for the grocery bag or the bag bag?

[Todd]

i just want to know, if i go to cali and buy a bag of **** and carry it out in a banned plastic grocery bag in order to conceal it, am i more likely to be busted for the grocery bag or the bag bag?

rotflrotfl