A very frustrated FAN vents

[ellis-d]

To everybody that makes this fansite what it is:
I have been traveling with this band for almost 2 years now, and I have seen a lot of things change, especially since I have been a fan for almost 5.  There once was a time when this band would get respect by their fans as well as their peers.  They have a jammy to prove that as well as 1000 members on this forum.  Yet for a good amount of my tenure I have seen a slow dissolution to their fanbase and their recognition as a talented force to be reckon with band.  Why is this I\'ve asked my self for some time.  Is it because their keyboard player QUIT?? Something I would love to remind all you wonderful boardies when you trash the band about not having Jordan anymore.  How can you hold it against the three guys that they\'ve decided to carry on without him when it was against their wishes that he left.  I would understand all the naysaying had they fired him, but it\'s like a girlfriend breaking up with you. It happens and as much as it may suck, you must go on.  
Now, on to the always entertaining management/business practices of the band.  Yes, things are a bit dicey, and they most certainly could be better; much better for that matter.  But, how much blame can you put in the hands of musicians that have been doing this for as long as they have?  By now they have paid their handing flyers out and all that bullshit dues.  After 8 years other people should be doin that for them.  As it goes, the people who were being paid to do so weren\'t, and are no longer with us.  It is not easy to replace such a high maintenance job, and is asking a lot out of the guys to do all the gigging, practicing and managing when they still need to maintain some sort of life outside of the band.  For all you wonderful people who have no idea what it is like, you try getting good at an instrument, or should i say great.  Write incredible songs, create an expirience that is the breakfast, and still have the energy to do all that goes into managing a band.  Many of you have no idea what it\'s all about being a part of something like this, and to constantly talk shit about one thing or another is absolutely unbelievable.  I\'d be willing to bet that most of you wouldn\'t even have the sack to keep doing what these guys have been doing for eight years after the numerous tribulations they\'ve gone through.  Between getting all their gear stolen on more than one occasion, to Jordan leaving the band, hell Tim and Steve almost died yesterday.  And let me tell you, none of us do this for the money, and we sure as hell don\'t do it for those of you supposed fans who love to tell them how they SHOULD be a band, and don\'t even come to shows.  How can those of you who never come to shows and just sit on your high horses downloading shows have the audacity to think you have something worthwhile to contribute to our methods??  Until you\'ve been there, whether on stage or just around you\'d be doing everybody a huge favor in keeping your thoughts to yourself, cause even though this is an open forum, it\'s purpose is to support the band and attempt to spread the GOOD word, not tear them down for every little thing they do or don\'t do.  For those of you who have a problem with my opinion, come to a show and kiss my ass.  As long as you pay 10 bucks you can say whatever the hell you want.

[Stephengencs]

I am not sure if Tim and I almost died yesterday, but its pretty safe to say that we were almost horribly maimed.......

On the way back from Utica while driving on the Mass Pike just south of the Lee service plaza, a giant sheet of ice, from the roof of an SUV traveling the opposite direction, flew up and smashed into the van windshield.  It sent glass all over me and tim as well as ron (who was lying on the bench directly behind the 2 front seats.  If Tim would have tried to slow down to miss the ice, it would have defintely come through the windshield. It was that big, and thick and solid.  It almost missed the windshield but a corner hit the center top of the windshield, where the rearview mirror.  The impact was strong enough to knock the overhead light cover to come flying off as well........Also, after the ice hit the windshield it flipped over the van and took a nice chunk out of the trailer.

Thank God nobody was hurt at all.......  and thanks to Chadwick for repairing the hole in the trailer.

PEOPLE PLEASE CLEAN ALL THE SNOW AND ICE OFF OF YOUR CARS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
and if you already do that, PLEASE BE CAREFUL DRIVING, because there are a lot of stupid fucking lazy fucks that do not clean their cars off properly and can cause serious accidents and injuries......

Nice post ellis.

[Igziabeher]

is he talking to all of us?

[ellis-d]

I\'m talking to those people who put all their energy into this forum and none into supporting the band

[leith]

I\'m talking to those people who put all their energy into this forum and none into supporting the band

:sick?:

For Ser though. Understandable you\'re upset and you have every right to be. Thing is fans of the band that may think they are no longer a band to reckon with as they used to be have the same right to voice their displeasure.

It\'s just how it is. Like it or not.

I support them by buying a ticket and going to their shows when they come around. Just because I don\'t travel across the country anymore to see them does not mean my right to voice displeasure is less than anyone else\'s. This is the world wide web not everyone can support the band by going to a show. This is a fansite to support the band yes but if they are doing things which seem self defeating as fans it behooves us to say something.

It\'s just how it is Like it or not.

[Me!]

is he talking to all of us?

to everyone and no one, who he really is talking to I\'m sure knows, and it\'s not just one person.  

I"m with ya Grellis, it does seem to me like the general state of things on this board has changed.

[davepeck]

look at upstate...
tryin to take the attention away from the fact that he came out on the board yesterday..
sad really.

[crimsonknuckles]

nice greg, i think everyone was thinking those thoughts, lately. sorry to hear about your ride home \'gencs, i hope you guys are feeling better.

[obsession600]

no one thinks that the band should be handling their own management for all of the reasons that you stated.

you want to learn about surviving as a band? read Our Band Could Be Your Life. Steve Albini would punch you in the face if he heard you whining like this. He wrote all the music for his band, hired and rehearsed his band, booked his band (national and international), booked other bands in his hometown, recorded his band and others, ran a record label and handled distribution.

Ultimately all of the fans want this band to succeed, now the band needs to find a business person that wants the same thing.

[booztravlr]

i know im more of a newb around here but i have nothing but love for this band. i was familiar with them over the years but was too caught up in other stuff to really give them a chance and i regret that so much. last april my friends band was in town and opened for them at the mezzanotte so i met him out for the night. since then all ive wanted to do was see these guys play. ive had nothing but good experiences at shows and each time i see them they seem to get better and better. i kind of miss not having jordan in the band but have nothing but respect for them to keep trucking along. no other band would have been determined or bold enough to not miss a beat in that transition. i would assume every band has their problems but i am sure with everyone\'s hard work and determination, these guys and everyone in their crew will take it to the next level.

sat night, i took a bathroom break during the second set and as i came out i saw you (ellis) grooving and rocking out the lights in the back. i stood there for a couple minutes to watch you sync up with the music and i couldnt help but smile and think of what a great thing you guys have going right now. i remember hearing how good the lights were at the burlington show (12-30) and i remember them being especially good at the ithaca show last month. youre obviously getting better each time you do the lights and you def look like youre enjoying yourself while doing them, so dont let setlist bashers bring you down. your bday setlist was awesome and there were a couple first timer songs in there for me, which made it even better. keep up the good work!

sorry if i am being out of line by this next statement, that is not my intention, but people on here (you know who you are) need to get out and promote for this band. if you want to see them succeed and earn what they deserve, pass out cds, flyers, and hang up posters. bring some new people to shows, even buy them a beer/shot or two after the show! its cold as shit in syracuse in january but i was out there handing cds/flyers to people and putting up posters. the weather didnt help for the two night run, but i def saw some new faces in there. im not saying they showed up based on any of the promotion i did but the more we spread the word/music of the breakfast the more people will come out to shows. i remember someone (gencs?) saying it was new to see shows being announced so far in advance. thats awesome! that means all of us will know about local/regional shows much earlier than before meaning promotion can begin even earlier. that also shows that band management (i do not know who does this) is on top of their shit! keep it up.

sorry for the thread jack/ramblings but there has been a lot of hate flowing around here recently and that energy should just be focused on helping the band out instead, imo.

[Klout]

Well I can’t help but think this at least partially directed at me after my comments about phish songs and I know J upstate is waiting for my response so here it goes...brace yourselves....

Now, on to the always entertaining management/business practices of the band. Yes, things are a bit dicey, and they most certainly could be better; much better for that matter. But, how much blame can you put in the hands of musicians that have been doing this for as long as they have?

Management and promotion sucks, nothing new here. Pretty much a dead horse. I don\'t think anyone blames the band personally for this or is saying they should be the ones out there tacking up flyers. Personally I just see it as unfortunate that they never lucked out and found great management that recognized and appreciated their talent and made it their mission to see to it that breakfast blow up. So what can ya do? Not much point in crying about this one.

How can those of you who never come to shows and just sit on your high horses downloading shows have the audacity to think you have something worthwhile to contribute to our methods?? Until you\'ve been there, whether on stage or just around you\'d be doing everybody a huge favor in keeping your thoughts to yourself

I don\'t think there is anyone here who has never been to a show and is just downloading shows and talking uneducated trash. I have only been to two shows post Jordan but I think I still have the right to say that weakly covering Phish songs as a three piece is LAME.

even though this is an open forum, it\'s purpose is to support the band and attempt to spread the GOOD word, not tear them down for every little thing they do or don\'t do

Sorry but your just plain WRONG here.  The purpose of this forum is not to blow smoke up the bands ass so they can come on here and read it and feel good about themselves regardless of anything that is actually happening. The purpose  is also not to just trash them obviously but the fans have every right to post what they are truly feeling about the band and the music.

There are certain fans that will never say one, even remotely critical word about the band because they are too close to the band on a personal level or spell-bound or whatever. Personally I am not one of these people and I never even understood this because even with rezi I would tell Phil my honest opinion after a show.  Don\'t you think the band would like to once in a while hear some feedback on their show besides "Its was sick dude! All of it! Every second. Just sick!"

Maybe some people\'s ears really are that unrefined but mine deffinitly can still tell the difference between average and THE FIRE.

I know you know this ellis because we have had this discussion before but your starting to sound like one of the aforementioned unwavering ass kissers in whose eyes the band has never, can never and will never do anything wrong ....ever.  Ceaselessly placating the band wether your thinking otherwise or not is not a good thing to do for obvious reason that I won’t go into here.

Support them when you like what your hearing by all means but don’t pretend like every note is pure gold because it’s not and a true fan and friend has the guts and respect to say it when its not.


The fact is, that while they are brilliant musicians and song writers as well as wonderful live performers BUT  they are also  human beings, none of whom are perfect,  and this is the real world and if every single fan  thought every single note they ever played was absolutely perfect the whole thing would be total bullshit and we would be mindless groupies, not fans.

YES, it is possible for a fan to be critical and remain a loyal fan!

I know it’s shocking but it is true. Look at Phish if you need proof. Do you think they blew up because everyone just mindlessly supported them no matter what they did? They have probably the most highly critical, knit-picking, hairsplitting audience of all time and you know what....no one from phish or thier crew  ever got on the internet crying about how hard their lives were and what meanies the fans were. They took it like sensible men and used it as a chance to improve or just ignored it and went out the next night and the night after that and just raged it.

Fanfeedback is important and turning a blind eye to what the fans are saying because you don\'t like what your hearing can be the death of any band.


In conclusion, I understand that you have different perspective than all of us these days and are much less of a FAN and more of a band member. It’s often a grueling,  low paying lifestyle no doubt.... and believe it or not the fans ARE thankful for the shit you put up with to bring us good music.

 But the martyrdom, guilt trip shit isn’t going to fly. At least not with me and I dare say any of the other fans who haven’t already committed to team groupie-ass-kissers from which there is no turning back.

It’s quite  ironic that  you end your post with a sarcastic and rather arrogant  ‘kiss my ass’ because that seems to be exactly what your asking us to do! Sorry to burst your bubble but it’s not happening. If you can’t take the honest opinions of fans then don’t read .info!!!

The band still gets it fair share of praise even in the post Jordan era but it never has been nor will it ever be be all ass kissing and smoke blowing so you have three options...take it as constructive criticisms and address the issues at hand....get over it and keep doing what your doing for the love of it .....or quit.


-klout

[Stephengencs]

Great points and well stated Jason.....

While the need for people to help with promotions is of the utmost importance, we must remember that a lot of people on this board are ser old school fans and have, in the past, put in their hard earned money and time in helping promote this band.  With fresh blood like yourself, we are currently working on better grassroots channels and a more effective promotions system.  

The problem that ellis was getting at was not necessarily the lack of assistance in promotions with this band, but with the negativity that has been coming from this board of late.  Everyone is entitled to their own feelings, thoughts, and opinions, however, we have to realize that negativity breeds negativity.  It is one thing to express your feelings, but another to just bash the band and its actions (or lack there of) for the sake of bashing.  That is NOT going to help anyone.  

When someone new does come to this board and reads some of the bashing, it may make them rethink everything they thought of about the band.  Now I am not saying that everyone has to have the optomistic and unconditional love for the band that i have, but just think about what you are saying and what the reaction from a new fan, new to this board will think.  We reap what we sow and this board is sow full of negativity and frustration that I truly believe that it is partly responsible for the lack of new blood getting involved.......

In the coming weeks there will be a serious promotion push linking all new fans to this board, and I hope we can try to make this a supportive fourm for posative ideas and thoughts concerning this band.  Nobody is saying that constructive criticism is bad or wrong, but please lets try to make it constructive.....posting what you have heard other people say they dislike about the band, in my opinion, is about as far from constructive criticism as you could get......

[davepeck]

it\'s no secret that fan morale has been down (a LOT) lately. it\'s visible on .info, and it\'s visible at the shows.

one could argue that the breakfast has been on a slow and steady decline for a while now. but if i were to try to pinpoint where the fan dropoff really started kicking in, i would say it all started on july 7th, 2006.

that was the date that fans of this band, old and new, were told, "oh, by the way, tonight is gonna be jordan\'s last show". an official press release was posted at 6:15pm that day, just a few hours before the show started. no matter whose decision it was, THAT is how it went down - no warning, nothing. just jordan\'s last show. deal with it.

so the band presses on as a three-piece. they don\'t cancel any shows, they rework songs and their sound, tim starts pulling double-duty on guitars/keys, and they keep going like nothing ever happened. honestly, i give them a LOT of credit for this. it\'s something that obviously took a lot of hard work and effort, and they made the transition from four-piece to three-piece pretty seamlessly.

of course, there\'s just one problem now: people don\'t like it.

try to deny it, but it is a fact. like it or not, the numbers speak for themselves. does the band still go out and "own faces" every night? sure. for the most part, the people in the crowds are still eating it up. but it\'s the people who aren\'t in the crowds (anymore) who are speaking volumes - they don\'t like it.

there are plenty of folks who the breakfast can do no wrong for. no matter what they do, everything will always be "ser", and that will be that. but these people are far outnumbered by the folks who fell in love with a band that just doesn\'t exist anymore.

i mean, it\'s fun to say cute things like, "the band is constantly changing, and you have to change with them" and, "dude just like surrender to the phlow, brah", but that\'s not how it works. just because the band does something, doesn\'t mean everyone has to/will like it. and the past 8 months have shown that overall, people don\'t like it. or maybe they do, but not nearly as much as they liked it before.

me, personally, i\'d be lying if i said i was as much a breakfast fan today as i was a year ago. it\'s not that i dislike the three-piece, it\'s that i believe they were much better as a four-piece, and i\'m constantly looking at what they\'re lacking today that they weren\'t lacking a year ago. vocals have always been a much-discussed weakness of this band. imo, with jordan\'s departure, they\'re at an all-time low. sure the individual pieces get better and better, but there is no voice in the band that had the balls that jordan\'s voice had. not to mention the lack of keys. is tim good/getting better at what he does? sure. but no matter how good he gets or how many loop toys get thrown into the mix, he can\'t replace a full-time keyboard player. period.

to me, there\'s just been an undeniable emptiness in the sound of the band over the last year.

oh by the way, speaking of sound, the band also has a new sound guy. it\'s hard to decipher, because dobson and jordan both left the band around the same time, but dobson had a pretty big arsenal of toys that he brought to the table to give the band a sound of their own, and while i think chad does a good job, that sound just isn\'t there anymore.

anyone know what the title of that press release was on july 7th, 2006?

THE BREAKFAST SEEKS NEW KEYBOARD PLAYER/VOCALIST

...but it seems like that idea went out the window almost instantly, and the band just decided to make due with what they had. it\'s been 8 months now, and it hasn\'t worked. they\'re losing more fans than they\'re gaining. how much longer can that go on for???

NO ONE CARES IF JORDAN LEFT, QUIT, WAS FIRED, SUSPENDED, EXPELLED, BEATEN, OR WHATEVER!!!! THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT HE IS NOT IN THE BAND ANYMORE AND IT APPEARS THAT THE BAND IS A-OK WITH THAT AND HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING TO TRY AND REPLACE HIM.

and just one more thing i\'d like to address...

By now they have paid their handing flyers out and all that bullshit dues.  After 8 years other people should be doin that for them.

O RLY?!?!

who the FUCK are the breakfast?? oh, that\'s right, NO ONE KNOWS!!! but yet, apparently they\'re a band who has "paid their dues" and don\'t have to promote themselves because of some unwritten rule that says you\'ve been a band for X years, you no longer have to put any work into promoting yourselves... bullshit. tell me, what exactly is the cutoff time for that? i googled, but couldn\'t find anything. i\'m very curious to know when a band\'s promotional work should NOT be the work of the band anymore..

NEWSFLASH: the band is in their 9th year and playing doozies in their home state!! let\'s hit the streets with some fliers, fellas!

signed,
another very frustrated FAN

[Todd]

Well put Dave!!!

[booztravlr]

While the need for people to help with promotions is of the utmost importance, we must remember that a lot of people on this board are ser old school fans and have, in the past, put in their hard earned money and time in helping promote this band. With fresh blood like yourself, we are currently working on better grassroots channels and a more effective promotions system.

that\'s a very good point. i was trying to direct my promotion statement towards people who havent really done it before not to all you old schoolers who def have put forth time/effort/money to support the band. i really dont mind promoting at all. cdr\'s are cheap and i can print cd labels/flyers/posters at work. i pmed dave before about helping around .info and the setlist/archive page but if there is more i can do to help the cause just let me know. let\'s see if we can sell out the 4.20 run!!