setlist notation petition...

[zuke583]

does anybody else agree that we can do without both "space city affair" and the "jam" on setlists? it just takes up too much room on cds, and i\'m too lazy to merge the files myself.  look no further than the 9/27/06 show on the archive to see the uselessness of "space city"....it\'s called 9 seconds of noodling...why label it? i guess the "jam" is a little more of a personal preference. for what it\'s worth i love popping in a disco biscuits cd and not necessarily knowing exactly where a jam is coming up. and, as has been stated before, it can get kind of confusing for those people who have breakfast shows stored on their computers...i know it\'s possible to change the name of a file...but why should we be the ones to do all the work? isn\'t that what tapers are for?

[derickw]

:moo:

let the games begin

[Todd]

[davepeck]

does anybody else agree that we can do without both "space city affair" and the "jam" on setlists?

walsh brought this up not too long ago (the \'jam\' part; not SCA). i don\'t agree..

it just takes up too much room on cds, and i\'m too lazy to merge the files myself.

i have no idea what this means.. can you explain?? how does a 2 minute jam take up any more room on a cd than that same 2 minutes added to \'song x\'?? and why would you have to merge any files?? i\'m confused..

look no further than the 9/27/06 show on the archive to see the uselessness of "space city"....it\'s called 9 seconds of noodling...why label it?

this is an exception where the recording started late and the SCA was cut short because of it. SCA is an improvised ambient jam that the band has been working into their shows a lot more lately. it\'s usually SCA > Song X. i stand by my belief that Song X begins with the first composed note of Song X, and not with a preceeding jam or SCA.

and, as has been stated before, it can get kind of confusing for those people who have breakfast shows stored on their computers...i know it\'s possible to change the name of a file...but why should we be the ones to do all the work? isn\'t that what tapers are for?

i don\'t understand this either. if you have ALL of your songs in one folder, you shouldn\'t. you should have a folder for each show.. but secondly, filenames (by etree standards) have nothing to do with what song is in them. filenames are bandnamed#t# for the purpose of easy organization. files like mp3s and flacs contain metadata where you can put things like song name, etc. i personally tag every flac i upload to etree, so not only are the files named in order, but the band name and song title will also come up in your media player of choice.. so again, i don\'t understand this.. i have over 750GB of breakfast shows on my computer, and have never had any confusion..

i personally think it is important to distinguish what is a song and what\'s not a song..

[jking]

ok, straight up n00b question here, but is there any real differential between sca and a jam? i mean, when listening to it, what\'s the difference? i\'ve been trying to hear a difference, but alas, can not. is it level of ambience? is it a particular key or chording? because if its just another type of jam, shouldn\'t they all have different names?

or am i just confusing myself too much?

[zuke583]

1.  

it just takes up too much room on cds, and i\'m too lazy to merge the files myself.

i have no idea what this means.. can you explain?? how does a 2 minute jam take up any more room on a cd than that same 2 minutes added to \'song x\'?? and why would you have to merge any files?? i\'m confused..

2.  

look no further than the 9/27/06 show on the archive to see the uselessness of "space city"....it\'s called 9 seconds of noodling...why label it?

this is an exception where the recording started late and the SCA was cut short because of it. SCA is an improvised ambient jam that the band has been working into their shows a lot more lately. it\'s usually SCA > Song X. i stand by my belief that Song X begins with the first composed note of Song X, and not with a preceeding jam or SCA.

3.  

and, as has been stated before, it can get kind of confusing for those people who have breakfast shows stored on their computers...i know it\'s possible to change the name of a file...but why should we be the ones to do all the work? isn\'t that what tapers are for?

i don\'t understand this either. if you have ALL of your songs in one folder, you shouldn\'t. you should have a folder for each show.. but secondly, filenames (by etree standards) have nothing to do with what song is in them. filenames are bandnamed#t# for the purpose of easy organization. files like mp3s and flacs contain metadata where you can put things like song name, etc. i personally tag every flac i upload to etree, so not only are the files named in order, but the band name and song title will also come up in your media player of choice.. so again, i don\'t understand this.. i have over 750GB of breakfast shows on my computer, and have never had any confusion..

i personally think it is important to distinguish what is a song and what\'s not a song..

1. it\'s not a matter of taking up time on a disc, it\'s a matter of having to write 14 songs on to one disc when simply writing nine would be sufficient. it reduces the clarity...for me anyway.  as a taper, doesn\'t it take more work to create more tracks too?  seems like a waste of time

2. ok so it\'s usually 39 seconds of noodling...i don\'t need to be told everytime the band strays a little from the song...i can figure that out for myself

3. i don\'t have breakfast shows on my computer...actually i don\'t even own a computer, so i\'m not even going to get into this...just restating past difficulties

i don\'t think the breakfast (or more specifically, their fans/tapers) needs to differentiate themselves from other bands by having a quirky setlist...their music can do that

[davepeck]

ok, straight up n00b question here, but is there any real differential between sca and a jam? i mean, when listening to it, what\'s the difference? i\'ve been trying to hear a difference, but alas, can not. is it level of ambience? is it a particular key or chording? because if its just another type of jam, shouldn\'t they all have different names?

(an) SCA is easily identified by its ambience - usually spacey (not jeff), with no real defined \'beat\' to speak of. ambient jam; no beat.

it should also be noted that the band (not a fan) came up with this identification, and has been using it for seven years now.

1. it\'s not a matter of taking up time on a disc, it\'s a matter of having to write 14 songs on to one disc when simply writing nine would be sufficient. it reduces the clarity...for me anyway.  as a taper, doesn\'t it take more work to create more tracks too?  seems like a waste of time

but still, you\'re not talking about any extra time or resources involved at any point in the process. your cd burner is doing all the work - you just have to drag and drop the files. and tracking a disc out (assuming you are familiar with the band) is probably the easiest/quickest part of a taper\'s job.

2. ok so it\'s usually 39 seconds of noodling...i don\'t need to be told everytime the band strays a little from the song...i can figure that out for myself

sure you can figure it out for yourself - if you hear/see it. the point of keeping accurate setlists is to have a solid idea of what the band played *on paper*.

if i look at a setlist and see:

I: No Regret

i have to assume that the opening guitar lick of NR opened that show. however, if i see:

I: Space City Affair > No Regret

that tells me that *something* came before NR. it could have been 40 seconds, or it could have been 5 minutes. the point is, *something* was played before NR. switch out SCA with \'jam\' - same deal. you\'re giving the reader a more accurate representation of how the show went.

i don\'t think the breakfast (or more specifically, their fans/tapers) needs to differentiate themselves from other bands by having a quirky setlist...their music can do that

i\'ve seen "jam" in probably 85% of setlists of bands in this genre.. i don\'t think anyone is doing anything revolutionary here.. :shrug:

[jking]

cool, thanks dave.

[WALSH]

The main point I had was that this is a recent change.  Browse old setlists, the only time a "Jam" is noted is if it starts a set(which I am fine with) -OR- if there is a significant reason to note said "jam"; i.e. "Jordan and Tim Jam", "Split Open and Melt Jam" from Sully\'s...those are the ones that people should/need to know about.  The Breakfast are a "Jamband", it seems silly to note after a segue marker, that there is a "jam" and then another segue marker into "song x".  That is understood by all who give a shit about setlists after a show is over.

[davepeck]

The main point I had was that this is a recent change.  Browse old setlists, the only time a "Jam" is noted is if it starts a set(which I am fine with) -OR- if there is a significant reason to note said "jam"; i.e. "Jordan and Tim Jam", "Split Open and Melt Jam" from Sully\'s...those are the ones that people should/need to know about.

it\'s actually something that started when people other than the people playing the music started recording and posting setlists. may old setlists were posted by the band - from what they had on paper and from memory. obviously they\'re not going to remember every \'jam\' that they play.

The Breakfast are a "Jamband", it seems silly to note after a segue marker, that there is a "jam" and then another segue marker into "song x".  That is understood by all who give a shit about setlists after a show is over.

see my response in the previous thread. to say that a segue marker implies a \'jam\' is so wrong and retarded it\'s not even funny.

[derickw]

[MOUSE]

[/MOUSE]

[Ant-Man]

SCA just sounds like moving sounds, doesn\'t seem as if the band is following a set of changes...we all know this about SCA so why wouldn\'t it belong on the set list seeing how its the only song that follows these characteristics...

But other than SCA an opinion on the matter should have no influence on weather jam is on the set list or not...

It\'s the chord changes/progressions that’s all that matters...


10/02/2006 Shag, Omaha, NE
jam>Sundance...the changes from \'jam\' on the set list contain changes from the song Sundance; they just took changes from the middle of the song and jammed around them. The changes within the jam on the set list are already in the song, so if that holds true then NO jam does not belong there...

Now if the band starts playing in a certain key with changes and obviously no one recognizes then this is a jam and does belong on the set list...because as said before, we all know these jams take on a whole world of their own...

I don\'t know, I just don\'t think there should be any variables regarding this when the music speaks for it\'s self...

[Lexington]

:deadhorse  long live space city affair!!!

[bdfreetuna]

leave it the way it is and has been as long as I can remember!

Seriously how hard is it to understand what "jam" and "Space City Affair" and " > " mean...

[Spacey]

because listing dig > jam > merge is generic and redundant. I have never seen a bands setlist list jam as much as the breakfast. why not write it dig -> merge. In all of my years taking setlists dating back to 1996-97 Phish I never labeled a jam in between two songs.

Here is an example.

Mike\'s Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove, A Song I Heard The Ocean Sing -> Piper
-> Makisupa Policeman

If this was the Breakfast it would be

Mike\'s Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove, A Song I Heard The Ocean Sing > jam> Piper > jam > Makispua Policeman

although I do agree with much of what Dave has stated.

I do believe if a set starts off with a jam, it should be listed and if a jam starts after the previous song has clearly stopped before they started the jam (i.e. finish Fresh Cut, no music, then they start a jam) it could be listed.