Author Topic: A look @ the year of 2 growing bands.  (Read 12755 times)

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #150 on: November 29, 2005, 02:08:14 pm »
Quote from: freddiewaht
Quote from: Jim Cobb
okay guys, this thread is not about wah vs. leith, take that up in PM form if you want to.  stay on topic or this thread is gettin waxed.



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ILL POST ABOUT WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT,WHENEVER THE FUCK I WANT!!!
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i may be being presumptuous here, but i THINK that one of the things dave would like me to moderate is when there are personal attacks going on.  that is what is going on here, and i\'m asking you guys to "get a room" so to speak.  i\'m not telling you not to say what\'s on your mind, i\'m asking you to find an appropriate way to do so, and this thread isn\'t one.
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Steffmo

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« Reply #151 on: November 29, 2005, 02:22:10 pm »
1)  I don\'t own a suit.....

2)  I don\'t go that way.

3)  Dude, I appreciate you can be frustrated.  I get frustrated as well.  Plus, I have invested a lot of time and money in this so my frustration is a lot more real that yours.  Your entire issue seems to be "when can I see the band on the west coast".  To which the asnwer is, "As soon as we can arrange a routing that doens\'t put the band back in the financial dumpster".

I, the manager, and the band are to some extent on the same team.  I have supported these guys for years, and expect to continue to do so.  Some people in the past have given up on this band and walked away.  At one point this year we were told "The band is too small for out agency".  We could have dropped it.  I\'ve put m time, talent, and money on the line for this band time and time again.

And you have done....what exactly???

As I said before...I dig your passion, and I really don\'t even mind you personally.  But you aren\'t helping.  This kind of behavior only scares people people away from getting involved with the band.  They read this stuff to.

Carry On.

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2005, 02:29:49 pm »
Quote from: Steffmo
I really don\'t even mind you personally.

rotfl
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obsession600

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« Reply #153 on: November 29, 2005, 02:36:40 pm »
Quote from: freddiewaht
Quote from: kindm\'s
Quote from: Steffmo
I\'m not going to waste a lot of time here, because this is one ignorant thread.  Lieth, i appreciate your passion, but shut the fuck up.  You have no clue.  
This time last year we were having discussions as to whether the band was even going to continue, the difficulties were so deep.  This year we look forward to a great festival season and stepping the band up.  Perhaps even the next record.  People have worked really had to keep the wheels on this thing and we plan to continue.
You, however, are definitely NOT helping.



I would think someone who has as much time in the music business as you have stated would have thicker skin and perhaps choose their words more wisely when addressing a fan



sitting around and reading some shit,putting down your hard work would probably upset you too.
its be like me saying that all year long,mike dearys recordings of shows sucked balls.
youd be upset too.

Yeah, but with Mike it would be a lie.
Remember that most of us do not know exactly what Steffmo does for the band. No part of this discussion should be seen as a personal attack.


So explain to me how discussing this does not help. This type of topic has generated a lot of fan interest and support in the past. I know that it is not a lot of fun for everyone to point at the elephant in the living room but sometimes it has to be done.


I am interested in the comment that this time last year the band was thinking of quitting. I expect no answer but I wonder what the reasons were. Do different band members have drastically different aspirations for the band?
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« Reply #154 on: November 29, 2005, 02:54:40 pm »
Quote from: leith
Quote from: Steffmo
I\'m not going to waste a lot of time here, because this is one ignorant thread.  Lieth, i appreciate your passion, but shut the fuck up.  You have no clue.  
This time last year we were having discussions as to whether the band was even going to continue, the difficulties were so deep.  This year we look forward to a great festival season and stepping the band up.  Perhaps even the next record.  People have worked really had to keep the wheels on this thing and we plan to continue.
You, however, are definitely NOT helping.


Hey Steffmo. Are you the producer or the manager?
 If you ARE the Manager GET TO FUCKING WORK AND GET THEM OUT HERE!
 If you are a producer of their albums and NOT a MANAGER Blow Me!

The mere fact that you mention the band having to decide if they were going to continue, ONLY VALIDATES MY FEELINGS THAT THIS BAND MAY NOT MAKE IT!
IF YOU GUYS THOUGHT SO WHY IS IT SO BAD FOR ME TO VOICE MY CONCERNS?
TELL ME!
I can say whatever the hell I want to get my point and feelings across. I sure as hell am not going to listen to a suit tell me I have no clue!


I think Leith is offically becoming the first person on my ignore list...... :pissed:
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« Reply #155 on: November 29, 2005, 03:01:59 pm »
what the hell is an elephant doing in the living room?

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #156 on: November 29, 2005, 03:06:08 pm »
i think the point here is that this thread should be a "what can i do to help" thread rather than a "bitch and moan about what isnt getting done" thread.
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leith

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« Reply #157 on: November 29, 2005, 03:09:13 pm »
Quote from: Steffmo
1)  I don\'t own a suit.....

2)  I don\'t go that way.

3)  Dude, I appreciate you can be frustrated.  I get frustrated as well.  Plus, I have invested a lot of time and money in this so my frustration is a lot more real that yours.  Your entire issue seems to be "when can I see the band on the west coast".  To which the asnwer is, "As soon as we can arrange a routing that doens\'t put the band back in the financial dumpster".

I, the manager, and the band are to some extent on the same team.  I have supported these guys for years, and expect to continue to do so.  Some people in the past have given up on this band and walked away.  At one point this year we were told "The band is too small for out agency".  We could have dropped it.  I\'ve put m time, talent, and money on the line for this band time and time again.

And you have done....what exactly???

As I said before...I dig your passion, and I really don\'t even mind you personally.  But you aren\'t helping.  This kind of behavior only scares people people away from getting involved with the band.  They read this stuff to.

Carry On.

Actually my gripe IS a lot larger now. I realize completely that a visit out West  is costly. My main concern which I realize may seem weird to some was the decrease in The Breakfast\'s visibility this year in my opinion.
I KNOW you do alot for the band and believe me from what i hear and read w/o you this band would be a memory.

I do not understand how on a fansite one person voicing concern over the band\'s growth is so bad? If anything it shows this band can elicit such concern and devotion. Esp. seeing as this person is 3000 miles away and still shows this type of lunacy.
Worrying is like praying for something you don't want.

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« Reply #158 on: November 29, 2005, 03:40:47 pm »
I don\'t have a problem with anyone "voicing concern" about anything.  I voice concerns everyday....that\'s how we define problems we have to solve.

But when concern becomes finger pointing or comparing of what happened here verses there, I have to draw the line.

We fight our battles for the band everyday, and it isn\'t easy.  Nor does it pay that well.  Still, we all believe very deeply that this band could not only be successful, but perhaps set a trend that might bring music back to something we might actually listen to.  Considering the fact that one day we woke up to find we had no agent the year was a great success.  I think that our energy is much better spent trying to  build upon 2005\'s high points rather than back bite over what is water over the dam.

As far as TLG, every bands situation is different. They have some resources that we don\'t, but if they weren\'t bringing some level of satisfaction to their fans, they wouldn\'t be on the map.  Give some credit where credit is due.

jking

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« Reply #159 on: November 29, 2005, 03:55:20 pm »
Quote from: davepeck

now i\'m confused... what\'s 2006 gonna be?


oddly enough, the year of the harmonizing midget clowns. go figure...


while i agree with leith\'s frustrations (as i, too, would like more shows i don\'t have to travel multiple states for) what i was noticing the other day, was this~ go back to the archive and listen to one of the january or february shows, then listen to, say, 11/17 stone church. while they may not have toured much or brought in a huge new fan base, their playing has leapt exponentially. the sheer power of what they are doing is most noticable. the size and depth of the songs wasn\'t nearly as full even 11 months ago. what they\'ve learned over this year has been irreplaceable.

now, do they need to get on the road? obviously. they need to go melt those faces in the midwest, then get back to them while the memory is still strong, as opposed to making them wait 9 or 10 months in-between shows. they need to continue to shore up their ne base, but honestly the uncharted regions are where they need to focus. and this is nothing that the band doesn\'t know.

after the puppethouse, tim looked at jill and i and asked, humbly, "what more do we need to do?" at the time, i think i suggested traveling pole dancers, but they know what they need to do. tour. a bunch. get out on the road for a year/year and a half coming home only to recharge the batteries and get clean socks. but let me ask you this~ Would you be willing to quit your job, leave your significant other for months in a row, just to play music to 15 people every night? 15 people who don\'t provide enough money to pay for full meals, full gas tanks and new strings???

the problem is that their ability level far outreaches their drawing level. cause those 15 people will be destroyed, if in fact they like an aural pummeling with a lot of changes in songs they don\'t know. certainly some will, but you\'ve seen how the crowd falls off at setbreak at local shows, so what about the tuesday night gig in east tuscaloosa where 6 people show up, but 4 of them have to leave early?? that\'s a daunting prospect, to be sure.

so what do you do about it? well, i\'d say they\'ve made some good choices and some not as good. start playing fests. they were well recieved at the few they played this year, which should increase the number they play next. personally, i\'d try to tour from fest to fest, playing weekday gigs at whatever college towns are along the way. but that\'s just me. those fests gave them some word of mouth. a poor decision (that they didn\'t have much control over, as they were still looking for/settling on a booking agency) was not to take that moe.down/10k lakes buzz higher with a non-stop fall/early winter tour. i like that they went out and played those midwest dates, showed that there are still folks interested at what they heard at 10k, but if they\'re gonna go out, more than 4 gigs should be attempted. but hey, how do we know that those gigs weren\'t introductions of the band (and its style & drawing power) to club owners in the midwest? now that they\'ve done fairly decently they can be booked with more confidence next year. especially since most places have the rest of this year already booked.

in an ultimatum mentality, jordan needs to quit his job, ron needs to ignore his wife and timmy and ad need to learn automechanics and theft prevention real quick. then go on the road until the world is sufficiently dominated. but even in this fantasy, there\'s no mention of how they are to afford said road trip. and that\'s what it all comes down to - money. there is the plan to start with concentric circles starting at your base and gradually expanding your playing area, there\'s the thought that you just go out and hit the road, there\'s the idea of sporadic, quick runs to specific venues. whichever one th band goes with will most likely be the one that enables them to get from one gig to the next. so, aside from one of us winning the lottery and bank rolling the entire band, the decisions that he band is making in the real world are a hell of a lot more difficult and diffuse than us sitting around hypothesizing about what they "need" to be, or not be, doing. its very easy to say \'get thee on the road, men\', but just try imagining what it would take for you, alone, to do a five week road trip on a musician\'s budget, then add in five more guys and equipment. now imagine you have to perform at the breakfast\'s level most of those nights, after driving for 8 or 10 hours on an empty tank. gets kinda daunting and complicated, don\'t it?!

I will continue to support them by sending out freebies and talking them up. i will continue to make every attempt to see them and buy some merch every time. (unless they\'re playing the webster, but that\'s another bitch-thread ;) )  and i will continue to support them however i can. but its far beyond me to know every intricacy involved in these men\'s lives and try to dictate their band\'s future plans. that\'s up to them.

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« Reply #160 on: November 29, 2005, 04:06:36 pm »
i <3 jking!

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« Reply #161 on: November 29, 2005, 04:11:56 pm »
:that:
This isn\'t who it would be if it wasn\'t who it is.

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« Reply #162 on: November 29, 2005, 04:13:51 pm »
Quote from: Steffmo
I don\'t have a problem with anyone "voicing concern" about anything.  I voice concerns everyday....that\'s how we define problems we have to solve.

But when concern becomes finger pointing or comparing of what happened here verses there, I have to draw the line.

We fight our battles for the band everyday, and it isn\'t easy.  Nor does it pay that well.  Still, we all believe very deeply that this band could not only be successful, but perhaps set a trend that might bring music back to something we might actually listen to.  Considering the fact that one day we woke up to find we had no agent the year was a great success.  I think that our energy is much better spent trying to  build upon 2005\'s high points rather than back bite over what is water over the dam.

As far as TLG, every bands situation is different. They have some resources that we don\'t, but if they weren\'t bringing some level of satisfaction to their fans, they wouldn\'t be on the map.  Give some credit where credit is due.


Yeah.  As I did post somewhere in here,comparing them to TLG was a mistake. I thought people would understand how I was thinking if they saw a concrete list. I was wrong.
and I know the satisfaction TLG brings to their fans,main reason I got jacked up in this thread. I happen to enjoy BOTH bands.
Again thank you for your work and time AND more over your Patience.
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« Reply #163 on: November 29, 2005, 04:41:37 pm »
Quote from: jking
Quote from: davepeck

now i\'m confused... what\'s 2006 gonna be?


oddly enough, the year of the harmonizing midget clowns. go figure...


while i agree with leith\'s frustrations (as i, too, would like more shows i don\'t have to travel multiple states for) what i was noticing the other day, was this~ go back to the archive and listen to one of the january or february shows, then listen to, say, 11/17 stone church. while they may not have toured much or brought in a huge new fan base, their playing has leapt exponentially. the sheer power of what they are doing is most noticable. the size and depth of the songs wasn\'t nearly as full even 11 months ago. what they\'ve learned over this year has been irreplaceable.

now, do they need to get on the road? obviously. they need to go melt those faces in the midwest, then get back to them while the memory is still strong, as opposed to making them wait 9 or 10 months in-between shows. they need to continue to shore up their ne base, but honestly the uncharted regions are where they need to focus. and this is nothing that the band doesn\'t know.

after the puppethouse, tim looked at jill and i and asked, humbly, "what more do we need to do?" at the time, i think i suggested traveling pole dancers, but they know what they need to do. tour. a bunch. get out on the road for a year/year and a half coming home only to recharge the batteries and get clean socks. but let me ask you this~ Would you be willing to quit your job, leave your significant other for months in a row, just to play music to 15 people every night? 15 people who don\'t provide enough money to pay for full meals, full gas tanks and new strings???

the problem is that their ability level far outreaches their drawing level. cause those 15 people will be destroyed, if in fact they like an aural pummeling with a lot of changes in songs they don\'t know. certainly some will, but you\'ve seen how the crowd falls off at setbreak at local shows, so what about the tuesday night gig in east tuscaloosa where 6 people show up, but 4 of them have to leave early?? that\'s a daunting prospect, to be sure.

so what do you do about it? well, i\'d say they\'ve made some good choices and some not as good. start playing fests. they were well recieved at the few they played this year, which should increase the number they play next. personally, i\'d try to tour from fest to fest, playing weekday gigs at whatever college towns are along the way. but that\'s just me. those fests gave them some word of mouth. a poor decision (that they didn\'t have much control over, as they were still looking for/settling on a booking agency) was not to take that moe.down/10k lakes buzz higher with a non-stop fall/early winter tour. i like that they went out and played those midwest dates, showed that there are still folks interested at what they heard at 10k, but if they\'re gonna go out, more than 4 gigs should be attempted. but hey, how do we know that those gigs weren\'t introductions of the band (and its style & drawing power) to club owners in the midwest? now that they\'ve done fairly decently they can be booked with more confidence next year. especially since most places have the rest of this year already booked.

in an ultimatum mentality, jordan needs to quit his job, ron needs to ignore his wife and timmy and ad need to learn automechanics and theft prevention real quick. then go on the road until the world is sufficiently dominated. but even in this fantasy, there\'s no mention of how they are to afford said road trip. and that\'s what it all comes down to - money. there is the plan to start with concentric circles starting at your base and gradually expanding your playing area, there\'s the thought that you just go out and hit the road, there\'s the idea of sporadic, quick runs to specific venues. whichever one th band goes with will most likely be the one that enables them to get from one gig to the next. so, aside from one of us winning the lottery and bank rolling the entire band, the decisions that he band is making in the real world are a hell of a lot more difficult and diffuse than us sitting around hypothesizing about what they "need" to be, or not be, doing. its very easy to say \'get thee on the road, men\', but just try imagining what it would take for you, alone, to do a five week road trip on a musician\'s budget, then add in five more guys and equipment. now imagine you have to perform at the breakfast\'s level most of those nights, after driving for 8 or 10 hours on an empty tank. gets kinda daunting and complicated, don\'t it?!

I will continue to support them by sending out freebies and talking them up. i will continue to make every attempt to see them and buy some merch every time. (unless they\'re playing the webster, but that\'s another bitch-thread ;) )  and i will continue to support them however i can. but its far beyond me to know every intricacy involved in these men\'s lives and try to dictate their band\'s future plans. that\'s up to them.



Very well thought out and articulate. The only problem I have with this is it doesn\'t show any NUTS!!! Hell long road trips, humping EQ, change in your pockets and all that jazz is ROCK AND ROLL!!!!

If the band isn\'t going to take risks then why should anyone else ? Im not bashing or anything else but if the mentality is to play it safe and not take risks then whats the point. The women in their lives married musicians so they should have known what they were getting in to in the first place. No 1 got famous / rich by playing it safe.

all of the things you described above is the perils of being a working musician.
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« Reply #164 on: November 29, 2005, 04:47:16 pm »
jking....... nail.....head! Damn brotha preach on, Can I get an A-MEN?!
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