Setlist: 2005-11-18 - Edmond Town Hall Theatre; Newtown, CT

[Stephengencs]

There was some jibberjabber at the town hall by some morons about the band not promoting the show well enough, but I think that a benefit for WPKN would have been mainly promoted by WPKN....

The fact that you are going to ask people for a $20 donation and then give them nothing but one set of music and some movie theater concessions is pretty crappy in my opinion.....

Anyone who did Stone Church > Edmond Town Hall was pretty much beat except for Tim, Adrian, Jordan, and Peck who all went to bed immedately upon checking into the hotel.  The rest of us pushed on till the day..yet again and had a friggin hilarious and wonderful time doing so.....

I pushed on through as far as I could on Friday night post Edmund Town Hall, but unfortunately didn\'t have the spunk to make it to the Yale Bowl....I am a bit glad but mostly upset with my sally self  for missing that shit......

Timmy Tour Continues @ BAR tomorrow.....

[skalnbyc]

There was some jibberjabber at the town hall by some morons about the band not promoting the show well enough, but I think that a benefit for WPKN would have been mainly promoted by WPKN....

Was the crowd largely comprised of .info people?

[Stephengencs]

.info and breakfast fans were mostly up front on the rail getting down.....

there were some people sitting in the seats....

I dont know what the total attendance was.....

Strange evening all around.....

[skalnbyc]

.info and breakfast fans were mostly up front on the rail getting down.....

there were some people sitting in the seats....

I dont know what the total attendance was.....

Strange evening all around.....

Will it qualify for the weirdest show in the Breakfast book of superlatives?

[Stephengencs]

it was weird in that it really didnt feel like a real show....
it felt more like a boring and poorly attended fundraiser, that just so happened to have my favorite band playing.....

[Todd]

Word is PKN lost in the neighborhood of 5hung this night

[Stephengencs]

Word is PKN lost in the neighborhood of 5hung this night

now thats some nice fundraising....pfffft.

[Spacey]

You can\'t expect to have people there if 3 weeks prior to a show you decide to start telling people. Especially when it comes to concerts. Some folks outside of the hardcore following need time to make plans and all that shit that normal folks need attending to. Again it seems that lack of planning/promoting has hinder the attendance.

[OrganicNugz]

Definitely cool to see the band on a proper stage.  They couldn\'t handle the power needed to run Ellis\' lights but the house lights (above the stage as well as in the stage) were run masterfully by Johnny Upstate.....  The sound was rich and full....

It was a good idea but poorly planned fundraiser for WPKN.  It would have been a better suited venue for other genras of music that the listener supported station plays.

Well...I don\'t take offense to that statement, but having planned it I would like to add my $.02. and to ask, what in your opinion do you feel was poorly planned???

From my point of view I think the planning was fine, everything went very well and was all executed efficiently. What it was simply, was a bad idea...a bad idea doesn\'t mean it was "poorly planned." So why was it a bad idea? Because I mistakenly expected that in the home state of The Breakfast they\'d be able to draw more than 60 people to see a show that wasn\'t at a bar! Fortunately the opening band, who I expected to have a smaller draw as they are not well known, pulled in about 80 people (unfortunately many of them didn\'t stay around for much of The Breakfast)...I really was shocked that 150-250 people wouldn\'t come out to see a band like The Breakfast. It\'s pretty disappointing, I imagine for the band as well.

One can make excuses, but I am at a loss...I would really like to understand from those who attended, as well as those who didn\'t.

Was it the ticket price? To me $20 is nothing to listen to 3.5hrs of music from 2 really good bands. I pay $8-9 to see a movie. Maybe b/c I am not living at home or earning minimum wage I am a bit out of touch, is $20 a lot of money? If I could have got the bands in there for less money, then I could have done it for between $10-15 but I wanted to pay the bands fairly...I think they are worth it.

Was it the location? It\'s pretty central to most of the population...only about a 1/2 hour from a few cities in the state (Norwalk, Danbury, New Haven) and 45m from Stamford, Hartford.

Was it the fact that it was Edmond "Town Hall" Theatre instead of The ________ Theatre? People seemed to be concerned about this, yet there was re-entry allowed...people I know were going out to their cars and enjoying a beer and a smoke (wink wink nudge nudge) I was there from 6p-1:30a I never even saw a police officer drive by let alone be at the hall(someone asked me if it was ok to puff and this one paranoid crew person, before I could answer explained that there were more police in the town hall than at the police station. Again read back from right after (wink wink nudge nudge) above. The  city of Newtown seem to leave us alone, we have done quite a few events there.

Was it the fact that no alcohol was served? There are 1/2 a dozen bars within 5-10 minutes of the place, and The Breakfast didn\'t go on until about 10pm. And again, I saw quite a few people hanging in the parking lot enjoying some beers.

Or was it simply as you\'re suggesting that somehow this venue is better suited for other genres of music? I am not sure...why is it better for other genres of music? We have done rock, folk, jazz shows there in the past seemed to suit all of them just fine...I have seen many great bands in a theatre setting, this was general admission and people were able to walk right down front and dance and enjoy the show.

Personally, I don\'t really get that...as far as the lights, the power issue etc., again the lighting in there is sufficient...not sure what that has to do with the music. Ellis did a great job with what was there, what he brought just wasn\'t possible given the power situation it was poo-pooed by the sound company who didn\'t want any additional interference/risk factors.

So in closing, it sounded good, was a nice venue with far less hassle than at the webster lets say...what was weird, to me, is that the fans didn\'t come out to see the band. And for energy, I understand that the band + most of the hard core fans that did show up were running on anywhere from 0-3 hrs of sleep for days...

Still, I plan to continue to do these things. In the future I may look to a different venue...there are not a lot of place to get your music heard and get a lot of air time. You don\'t see other stations willing to support The Breakfast at this point in their career, I took a chance and will continue to take them. I certainly learned a few things in the process. Seriously let me know your thoughts....

peace.

bc

[Mark]

I\'m with Bill on this one.  I kept looking around and kept asking myself where is everyone??  The venue was great, the sound was great, and it was very well organized in my opinion.  I really am disappointed that more people did not show up to support the band and WPKN. I agree that the show did not blow me away, but perhaps playing to a mostly empty theatre helped keep the energy level down.

Also, the Cosmic Jibaros were fantastic!

[weekapaug19]

i can\'t say much cause I wasn\'t there, but lack of alcohol probably turned some people away considering the b\'fast fans like to party alot.  Also, it could have been location (the long drive for me made my decision not to go easy).  Also, was the room to big for the band so thats why it seemed empty, casue I know that they are not a theatre band yet, still a bar band (not talent wise tho, much better than bar band talent)

[davepeck]

as someone who was there, and possibly on the inside looking out, if i had to guess, i\'d say the main thing that kept people away was the ticket price.. let me explain..

i understand that the show was a benefit to raise money, but the bottom line with most people is, "what\'s in it for ME? what am i getting for my $20?" i think you have to offer a little incentive to justify the ticket price to the consumer, because \'charitable giving\' just isn\'t good enough for most folks.. and if anything, this show was a watered-down version of your typical breakfast show, with a ticket price double the normal fee.. this was a one set show that was over by midnight, with the added inconvenience of finding somewhere to drink before/during the show, not being able to drink inside the show, and lacking the intelligent lights that have been a MAJOR addition to this band..

take the 12/10 show for example.. it also has a $20 ticket price. but with that $20 ticket comes TWO sets of breakfast, 2 opening bands, an open bar, and a breakfast light show.. again, i understand the donation factor, but most people will just see the 12/10 show as getting a LOT more for their money than the Newtown show.

i realize a lot of these things weren\'t possible at the given venue, but i\'d like to think that a little more could have been offered to get more people in there, while still making money off the ticket price..

the band has also never drawn well in that area.. not sure why, either.. it\'s been a long time, but the colorado brewing company was one of my favorite venues, and there was never anyone there..

just a couple of pennies i just found in my pocket...

[Wolfman]

Hey there Mr. Nugs.  Thanks a lot for putting the show together.  I know how much work it can be.  Especially when you\'re working for a non-profit, it really gets your hands tied.  I\'m glad you\'re looking to do more shows, that is great!  I\'ll offer answers to some of your questions.  

I really was shocked that 150-250 people wouldn\'t come out to see a band like The Breakfast.

Outside of Toad\'s and The Webster, I can\'t remember the Breakfast ever drawing 200 people in CT.  Those are well established and well promoted venues.  Porter\'s and Cafe 9 and Sully\'s are always around 100.  Plus the first 50 people at any CT show are always the same 50 people, so if half of them don\'t go for any reason, you\'re starting off very shorthanded.    

Was it the ticket price? To me $20 is nothing to listen to 3.5hrs of music from 2 really good bands...  is $20 a lot of money?

How many grains of sand does it take to make a heap?  $20 is a lot of money to some fans, not a lot to others.  What really matters is the pricing precedent.  The average Breakfast show is about $10-$12 right now, and jamband fans are notoriously price sensitive.  If you try to go 10-20% higher than the average price, you\'re asking for trouble.  By going 100% over this number, you\'re in major trouble.  And as kind as the jamabnd fans are, nobody cares that it\'s a benefit show.  

If I could have got the bands in there for less money, then I could have done it for between $10-15 but I wanted to pay the bands fairly...I think they are worth it.

Without going into too much detail about negotation strategy, I\'ll just simply say that this is the worst mindset a promoter can have going into negotiations.  You absolutely could have gotten the bands in for less money.  Next time tell the bands, "Look, this is a benefit show.  I\'ve got no money.  I need to pay for the room and the promotion and the sound, I\'ve got no money at all, and we need to keep the ticket price under $12.  I need you to take less than you usually would on a Friday night.  I\'ll give you a cool room and a well-promoted show.  Help me out."  I had the same mindset you did when I did Baker Quadfest and overpaid.  Lucky for me I had excess cash in the Baker House Council fund.  After that though, all the UMass bands wanted me to do shows for them, and I started to get tough at the negotiation table.  So just get a couple of good shows in somewhere to help step up your negotiating clout, and knuckle down.  Whoever you negotiated with could probably tell you were green in about 5 seconds, and took advantage.  In fairness to you, The Breakfast shouldn\'t have demanded so much to drive the ticket price up to $20.  They should know better than to have $20 tickets.  But on the flip side you can\'t blame them for taking a payday when it\'s available.  

Was it the location...
Was it the fact that it was Edmond "Town Hall" Theatre?... people I know were going out to their cars and enjoying a beer and a smoke
Was it the fact that no alcohol was served? There are 1/2 a dozen bars within 5-10 minutes of the place, and The Breakfast didn\'t go on until about 10pm. And again, I saw quite a few people hanging in the parking lot enjoying some beers.

Surrounding bars don\'t matter.  The show could be in downtown Miami during Spring Break, but no alcohol at show = weak show.  The word "Theater" means different things to different people.  Positively, it can mean "good sound" and "good lights".  Negatively, it can mean "increased security", "high price", "assigned seats", "no alcohol" and "early curfew."  People know what to expect at The Webster Theater and Puppet House Theater.  But given that The Breakfast rarely play theaters, an unheard of theater probably strikes more fear than excitement in the hearts of fans.  I don\'t think music genre has anything to do with it.  Theaters in general are pretty versatile, all sorts of shows can work there.      

Personally, I don\'t really get that...as far as the lights, the power issue etc., again the lighting in there is sufficient...not sure what that has to do with the music.

The Breakfast fans love the light show, and have come to expect it.  If you take it away, your show starts at a significantly lower level and has a lower ceiling on its potential.    

So in closing, it sounded good, was a nice venue with far less hassle than at the webster lets say...what was weird, to me, is that the fans didn\'t come out to see the band. And for energy, I understand that the band + most of the hard core fans that did show up were running on anywhere from 0-3 hrs of sleep for days...

Good sound is a basic requirement, not an attraction.  Same goes for lack of hassle.  And lack of hassle as a benefit is more than offset by the disadvantage of no alcohol.  The fans and band routinely battle through exhaustion, so any lack of energy is due mainly to the room.  Given the high ticket price, unusual location, and what the band usually draws in CT, I don\'t think the number you drew is weird at all.    

Still, I plan to continue to do these things. In the future I may look to a different venue.. I took a chance and will continue to take them. I certainly learned a few things in the process. Seriously let me know your thoughts....

You should definitely continue to do these shows.  It\'s not easy, so don\'t worry if your first show wasn\'t perfect.  You should absolutely find a new venue, at least for The Breakfast.  Find a bar that will work with numbers you can deal with, or find a VFW-type room you can get cheap and serve alcohol in, a la UAC hall.  Talk to TerryOB and ask him what he\'s doing.  The radio tie-in is a great thing, and you have some great shows in you.  Keep at it!

[SlimPickens]

I don\'t think you can blame poor attendance on any one factor, but rather a combination of multiple:

Looking @ Jambase, Friday night NYC had:
North Mississippi Allstars
Tea Leaf Green
Umphrey\'s
Ryan Adams

and Saturday had Trey in Wallingford.

that\'s a lot of demands for peoples time attention and endurance and money. mix those with the no bar & questionable location

and there ya go.

[OrganicNugz]

Thanks Dave, Mark, Wolfman, Slim for the feedback; that\'s what I was looking for! I want to add that I don\'t hold anyone at fault other than myself; not the bands, or fans etc...Just looking for ways to improve and to get a good idea of what was wrong about it. This is not the first show I\'ve put together, just the first one of this type or for a band that I wasn\'t playing in.

I am also disappointed in the turn out from the station, as it was well promoted on air, and in print. I don\'t think a lot of regular listeners/supporters came out for this event for whatever reason. I was OK paying the bands, it wasn\'t excessive, and again I want bands to be happy so they will want to particpate in these events in the future and so word is out to other bands so they will want to particpate and know they will be treated well. I could have pressured bands to do it for free just based on radio exposure, but I\'ve been in bands and had these type of situations...or played Toad\'s and The Webster for next to nothing. I am not a corporate promoter or a capitalist, was just looking to be fair to all involved. In fact if I had a real strong turnout, as I told both bands, I would have paid the bands more. My hope was to make some money for the station in the process however, that was the only thing I failed to do...with the exception of the turnout, and the fact that it was only a break-even effort I am not dissappointed.

Sounds like it was a combination of factors, most of which could have been controlled by selecting a different venue for this type of show. I felt that the combination of the individual draw of the two bands, coupled with people who listen to PKN being willing to try something new would be enough to fill the place...I was wrong, I gambled and lost :-).

Shows we\'ve done there in the past have sold out or been close to it, so I guess I was used to that and had faith that the differences discussed would be overcome by people willing to take a chance; fans willing to take a chance on this type of venue, and station listeners willing to take a chance on new bands...but, that was not very realistic.

In any event, I will be working on more shows...and The Breakfast and other up and coming musicians will always have a place to get air time. Every time I highlight their music or have an interview with someone from the band, I\'ve had new listeners who have never heard The Breakfast call in to ask about the band and comment on their talent. That\'s a good thing, and that\'s all it\'s about to me.

When I go to a show I don\'t care about the lights or the alcohol or if I can get high inside the venue...those are all nice, but, to me it\'s always about the music and the sound quality first and foremost. I learned, or re-learned, that those things are not always important or are a smaller factor to the music experience of others.

Thanks to those who did come, and also for your feedback on how to improve it for next time.

p.s. if there is a recording of the Cosmic Jibaro\'s out there, I\'d love to get a hold of this. I will be rebroadcasting this show soon...and I was unable to record it myself as the equipment we have was being utilized at another event in NYC.