Interesting Article

[leith]

He may be a spun out weirdo but he wrote a very coherent and well thought out article that describes the dissolution of a once very friendly scene of like minded music lovers very accurately.

[Klout]

"I don\'t see any way in the immediate future that a friendly community could exist again outside of very small circles"

thats total crap. completely cynical and negative. The entire article is ZZ trying to rationalize why people look at him strangely at shows and dont accept him anymore. Uhm maybe because your a 50 year old stuck still stuck in your teens dressing up like a super hero at concerts?  Obviously the scene is not all peace and love and good vibes like it was 30 years ago but its not some gross machine where no one can relate to each other or have any sense of community and everyone is out to hurt and put down everyone else like zz seems to think. that is horse shit.

[kindm's]

I think it is more a relfection of society as a whole. People always tend to look at things with rose colored glasses when remembering the past.


IMHO the biggest downfall of the "scene" whatever that is was a major influx of much harder chemicals. The harder chemicals aren\'t usually peddled by "hippies" but dealers. Dealers bring a much differnt vibe to the party. Depending on what they are up to also means weapons. They also bring a certain crowd looking for these things. Crime tends to follow hard drugs as well.

I remember vividly seeing crack being smoked, coke being done in the open, needles lying around, prostitutes (WTF is that), all sorts of stuff. It is really sad. Sure these things were on dead tour and phish tour but they EXPLODED on the scene in the past 10 - 15 years.

The respect thing is a society thing. for some reason People feel they are entitled to everything.

[leith]

"I don\'t see any way in the immediate future that a friendly community could exist again outside of very small circles"

thats total crap. completely cynical and negative. The entire article is ZZ trying to rationalize why people look at him strangely at shows and dont accept him anymore. Uhm maybe because your a 50 year old stuck still stuck in your teens dressing up like a super hero at concerts?  Obviously the scene is not all peace and love and good vibes like it was 30 years ago but its not some gross machine where no one can relate to each other or have any sense of community and everyone is out to hurt and put down everyone else like zz seems to think. that is horse shit.

Are you SER? Dude take a surf around. It seems to me there are MORE people closeminded to other bands than openminded. Every band has a majority of fans that are this band is tops no room for others. These fans are very vocal and many times unconcerned abt the legitimacy of other fans claims that THEIR band is tops.
How many this band rules that band sux posts are there? Tons. I have been guilty of it myself until I realize what an ass i am for it and give said band a chance.
 There is a difference in disliking a band and their fans and talking shit every chance you get abt the same. This attitude translates to the lots of larger shows and is only exacerbated even more post show on the \'net. He mentioned a group the Rakefighter\'s who only recently changed their logo to reflect the difference in wook and hippie which only goes to prove his point even more that these folk even saw a reason to form Rakefighter\'s.
Why can\'t he dress up as a superhero and act his age wtf? That\'s BS. I know people who only dance @ shows because that is the ONLY place they feel they can dance w/o being laughed at. These same people are Dr.\'s and Lawyers and totally NOT weirdos. What just because one is old they can\'t have fun anymore? Dude that\'s is BS and you know it.

[Klout]

"What just because one is old they can\'t have fun anymore? "

Thats not what i am saying at all. All i am saying is I think ZZ\'s view on the scene is slanted because he does not accept the fact that things are not like they were 30 years ago. 30 years ago being a spun out weirdo and was thing to do. Most old school heads, my parents being two of them, these lawyers and doctors you speak of are not running around on cheese tour today with long hair, a long beard and a cape on wondering why they dont fit into the scene anymore and why the scene is full of a bunch of jerks these days because its really not that relevant or even that true for that matter.

[leith]

Have you been on tour? If so when and for how long? I can tell you from personal experience the scene has changed. It has gotten younger and more splintered because there is no ONE BIG band that can sustain a community. It\'s fact man. Just because you do not want to accept that the scene is more full of assholes there for the party than the music does not mean it is not so. The only band that actually sustains a community on the road is SCI and they get more crap than anyone. It is sad but true until a band makes it to the level of GD or Phish the scene will revolve around festivals and local shows making the community more fractured w/ no sense of history exactly as was written in this article.

[Marcial]

it all depends on what you are looking to get out of a show... I go for the following reasons:

1) enjoy music
2) hang with friends

I don\'t feel a need to be a part of any "community".  As has been stated before, GD was spawned in the 60\'s... when people our age were revolting / protesting / and being activists... people felt the need to be a part of something... not anymore.  These days, things are much more about the individual as opposed to the community.

Some bleeding hearts out there think they are doing good by kicking down miracle tickets or chipping in to some wookie family\'s gas fund so they can make it to the next show... personally, I ain\'t lifting a finger to help this guy get to the next show, when he\'s been a tour rat for the last six months and I\'ve been at work!  Here\'s a tip more of these guys should take to heart...if you can\'t afford a ticket & gas, stay the fuck at home!  The guy who wrote this article made it sound like these people reducing their number of shows is not an option, so we should all be "brothers" and help them out... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE "COMMUNITY".

[leith]

Yep that is the attitude this guy was referring to. Marcial comes through again. Your attitude permeates the scene and is only indicitive of Society in general. Well that person that is ignored by you will be glad of someone like me that actually cares abt more than just my needs. It is this me attitude that breeds contempt and hate as you prove alot. Peace

[skalnbyc]

The respect thing is a society thing. for some reason People feel they are entitled to everything.

Yeah, way too many "important" people out there that don\'t identify their place in the context of billions of others.

[Klout]

"Just because you do not want to accept that the scene is more full of assholes there for the party than the music does not mean it is not so."

I accept it man. I saw about 15 phish shows a year from 1995 to 2004 and in that time I obviously saw the scene go down hill. In that time I also met hundreds of phish fans who for the most part all knew and loved eachother and continued to dance side by side show after show, year after year. So I refuse to believe that scene has gone to hell in a hand basket. The real problem in the scene is not the nooby, custi, clean cut looking college kids who go to shows on weekends and have a good time. It\'s the losers who devote thier entire life to the music and scene and get caught up it to the point where they become, druggies, homeless, scumbags, thiefs,  and jobless, wooks and then take a negative attitude toward new fans claiming they fucked up the community they are clinging to when the community is actually deteriorating mainly because all the old school heads either grew up and got a job... or they lingered on tour and became lot trash losers.

[kindm's]

it all depends on what you are looking to get out of a show... I go for the following reasons:

1) enjoy music
2) hang with friends

I don\'t feel a need to be a part of any "community".  As has been stated before, GD was spawned in the 60\'s... when people our age were revolting / protesting / and being activists... people felt the need to be a part of something... not anymore.  These days, things are much more about the individual as opposed to the community.

Some bleeding hearts out there think they are doing good by kicking down miracle tickets or chipping in to some wookie family\'s gas fund so they can make it to the next show... personally, I ain\'t lifting a finger to help this guy get to the next show, when he\'s been a tour rat for the last six months and I\'ve been at work!  Here\'s a tip more of these guys should take to heart...if you can\'t afford a ticket & gas, stay the fuck at home!  The guy who wrote this article made it sound like these people reducing their number of shows is not an option, so we should all be "brothers" and help them out... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE "COMMUNITY".

Marcial you are part of a community. This community. Kicking down free tickets is fun for the person doing the giving. I have done that many times. It is all about Karma. I believe that the goodness that I do might actually come back to me some day (as I believe the bad might as well and thats scarey )

Also if i have spare change at a show I will sometimes give it away. I have done the same to homeless people in DC and all over. I dont usually launch in to a diatribe of why they should get a job and blah blah blah. Where would we be without the kindness of others.

There have been times in this community where i forgot something at home or whatevr and folks have helped me out, made my night and even made new friends. It is about give and take. I give sometimes I take sometimes it all works out.

I completely agree with the BIG F-YOU when it is the same people begging at shows though. they can get a job and work like we do

[kindm's]

"Just because you do not want to accept that the scene is more full of assholes there for the party than the music does not mean it is not so."

I accept it man. I saw about 15 phish shows a year from 1995 to 2004 and in that time I obviously saw the scene go down hill. In that time I also met hundreds of phish fans who for the most part all knew and loved eachother and continued to dance side by side show after show, year after year. So I refuse to believe that scene has gone to hell in a hand basket. The real problem in the scene is not the nooby, custi, clean cut looking college kids who go to shows on weekends and have a good time. It\'s the losers who devote thier entire life to the music and scene and get caught up it to the point where they become, druggies, homeless, scumbags, thiefs,  and jobless, wooks and then take a negative attitude toward new fans claiming they fucked up the community they are clinging to when the community is actually deteriorating mainly because all the old school heads either grew up and got a job... or they lingered on tour and became lot trash losers.

Sorry but assholes come in every shape and size. I know many folks who have devoted their lives to music and they do not have any of the qualities you list above. The whole problem is people judging others by the color of their skin, the clothes they wear, the length of their hair, the way they talk etc.


"Oh Great spirit,
grant that I may never find fault
with my neighbor until I have walked
the trail of life in his moccasins."

[Marcial]

Leith, do you think people who cannot afford tickets & gas money should be at every show?  Yes or no?

You think I wouldn\'t rather be on tour than working??  Everyone would!  See, the thing about it is this word called "responsibility"... I\'m not going to put myself in a sitaution where I have to rely on other people... wooks should heed that advice.

[Stephengencs]

Some bleeding hearts out there think they are doing good by kicking down miracle tickets or chipping in to some wookie family\'s gas fund so they can make it to the next show... personally, I ain\'t lifting a finger to help this guy get to the next show, when he\'s been a tour rat for the last six months and I\'ve been at work!  Here\'s a tip more of these guys should take to heart...if you can\'t afford a ticket & gas, stay the fuck at home!  The guy who wrote this article made it sound like these people reducing their number of shows is not an option, so we should all be "brothers" and help them out... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE "COMMUNITY".

I would like to make a donation to the church of Mendez....
Right on Marcial....

[leith]

"Just because you do not want to accept that the scene is more full of assholes there for the party than the music does not mean it is not so."

I accept it man. I saw about 15 phish shows a year from 1995 to 2004 and in that time I obviously saw the scene go down hill. In that time I also met hundreds of phish fans who for the most part all knew and loved eachother and continued to dance side by side show after show, year after year. So I refuse to believe that scene has gone to hell in a hand basket. The real problem in the scene is not the nooby, custi, clean cut looking college kids who go to shows on weekends and have a good time. It\'s the losers who devote thier entire life to the music and scene and get caught up it to the point where they become, druggies, homeless, scumbags, thiefs,  and jobless, wooks and then take a negative attitude toward new fans claiming they fucked up the community they are clinging to when the community is actually deteriorating mainly because all the old school heads either grew up and got a job... or they lingered on tour and became lot trash losers.

You just proved my point man. Those phish fans you mentioned that continued to go to shows etc. What do they do now? There is NO band to consistently follow and look forward to on the larger scale. That\'s all I\'m saying. This man was just putting in words what WE have witnessed over the years. How was it sooo crappy ? Just because you think the writer is a nutjob it automatically disqualifies the truth in his writing?