No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?

[peaches626]

thanks for startin this thread leith, i am very confused by all this.


i\'m not even sure what my stance is. if i even need one?



i think i feel like every single person before they die (or when they die) is gonna have to go through some extreme seri-oid health shit, including receiving some type of emergency treatment to keep them alive.  we don\'t just let people die. in fact people get prosecuted for not doing enough to try to keep people alive.  the process of trying to keep people alive when they are near death costs ridiculous amounts of money.  i feel like we should all just throw down together for those types of treatments where we are keeping people from dying.


sweet blegh. dont know what im sayin really

[Yoda]

No need to continue the argument at this point... It looks like they\'re going to have to vote again; the house has to vote again because the facists didn\'t follow procedures...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/health/policy/26health.html?hp

[kindm's]

I don\'t know you, but that sounds like youthful ignorance to me.  Ten years ago I probably would have agreed with you.

No youthful ignorance on my part. I am 31, hubs is going to be 33.  We own a home.  We are sick of being taxed to death and paying for other people\'s laziness, stupidity, and ignorance because we managed to get our lives together in our 20s so we could prosper in our 30s just to help carry the weight of irresponsible americans.  I think zuke said it best that we are just lazy and stupid and greedy as a country.   Our ancestors and our grandparents, great-grandparents suffered through such adversity. And all we do as the current generations is hold our hands out wanting more and more and more.  

Last time I checked we fought and won our independence so the government could not control every aspect of our lives.  But in a way, we are slowly handing over every little piece of it.

current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.

Agreed.

If you realized how badly you were getting fucked by the current system...

...well, I guess ignorance is bliss.  Just pull your blinders down and go back to sleep.

But I am not getting fucked.  Maybe some are.  It all depends on your insurance plan.  We have good insurance that pays about 100% of everything.  I\'ve been to the doctor 8 times in the last two months and trust me, my insurance paid a lot and I got every cents worth.

You know I wasn\'t going to post in this thread but reading your posts makes me very very angry.

Your first post basically says how you and yours are getting screwed because you have what is referred to as "Cadillac policies" and now you will be taxed because of it. WAHHHHHAA

First and foremost those taxes will not kick in for several years, many of the unions negotiated these things.

2nd. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK GAVE YOU THOSE BENEFITS TO BEGIN WITH ? we did. You know all the tax $$ that you and your husband receive as salary. So lets start with that. You guys are in a SOCIALIZED industry. Your husbands salary and his benefits as well as yours are all paid by taxes which everyone has to pay regardless if we use your services at all. So before you go spouting at the mouth remember if it wasn\'t for SOCIALISM you guys wouldn\'t even have jobs.

So all of your bitching about having to pay for other people. Well guess what, your benefits are a direct result of all of your fellow citizens paying for it. So of all people YOU should really be silent when trying to deny your fellow citizens the same basic coverage that they provide YOU.

Is this bill perfect ? Nope. The progressives among us wanted single payer universal healthcare where everyone pays their way. But unfortunately that lovely asshole from YOUR state LIEberman killed that. It would have saved the USA trillions of dollars while also insuring everyone.

But from reading your posts it wouldn\'t have mattered anyway. YOU and YOURS aren\'t getting anything out of it so you would have been upset.

And lazy Americans. irresponsible etc etc to use your words. Well hows it is irresponsible of someone to get cancer ? or in a car accident or has and any number of aliments that have nothing to do with lifestyle. So lets say they had INS and then their INS one day finds a loophole and says sorry, pre-existing condition and they pull your policy and deny your claim. So they were responsible enough to have INS, to pay for it only to have their policy cancelled. YA they were irresponsible to get sick. That is basically what you are saying.

For a 31 year old you argue like a spoiled brat.

[peaches626]

go getter kindm\'s!!

[Igziabeher]

:slow clap:

[SkyePrizm]

kindm\'s what do you do for a living?  Just curious.  Cause i\'d like to know so i then can insert a personal attack on you.  pretty petty.  considering i don\'t know you from a hole in the wall.

Sorry we have "cadilliac" insurance because my husband goes out every night and RISKS HIS FUCKING LIFE so you all can sleep peacefully in your beds.  Do you know how many times he\'s been shot at by gang members in newhallville?  Do you know how many times I\'ve gotten a call cause he\'s at the hospital needing stitches?  You rub me as one of those people that\'s like "fuck police" until you have to call 9-1-1 cause your car got broken into and then its like "oh police help me."  

Police and Fire do thankless jobs.  They deserve the best.  Sorry. That\'s my opinion.   And we then don\'t deserve to get extra taxes.  

Tax payers pay for their salaries, yes(and we live in the town he works, so hence we put into the pot that ultimately pays him, its a bit of a vicious cycle).  

I believe in helping others out.  I do plenty of charity work. Donate money. Volunteer. I am a very kind hearted individual.  This has nothing to do with me being bratty or me caring about anything that isn\'t involving my own.

I just think this bill is plain awful.  Its going to hurt our country not help it.  Its going to make us more dependent on our government. I am for small government.

I am all for good debating, and yes, thank you, Leith, for starting this.  But the great thing about a good debate is when a person can refrain from personal attacks on the other.  So, I\'ve said my peace. Done with this debate.

[KEN RAFLOWITZ]

The private sector has failed the needs of the people.
People need proper care. It\'s the governments job to look after it\'s people.
If you want small government, go to a small country.
I feel the health care bill is just a kick in the ass to make the private companies more
responsible on how they treat people.
Much of the health care bill probably will never take root. (Obama is aware of this)
A few changes will be made and fine tuned along the way.

[Vassillios]

I feel the health care bill is just a kick in the ass to make the private companies more
responsible on how they treat people.
Much of the health care bill probably will never take root. (Obama is aware of this)
A few changes will be made and fine tuned along the way.

:that:

[KEN RAFLOWITZ]

Obama pushed through this few thousand page crock of shit because he knew
most of it was not needed or will never manifest into action.
As Captain of our American ship he is claiming charge of his vessel.
He was voted into office of President of the USA.
The rulers of past should respect their Captain.
While in office he wiil run things the way he feels best.
The Right Wing is only out to destroy their Captain and take over his ship.
This is mutiny! Mutiny was punishable by death at one time.

[skalnbyc]

And lazy Americans. irresponsible etc etc to use your words. Well hows it is irresponsible of someone to get cancer ? or in a car accident or has and any number of aliments that have nothing to do with lifestyle. .

Just since Skye is getting grilled, I think I was the one ranting about all the preventable illnesses that are rampant among the irresponsible.  I concur that cancer, car wrecks are not preventable/require critical care.

[SlimPickens]

But I am not getting fucked.  Maybe some are.  It all depends on your insurance plan.  We have good insurance that pays about 100% of everything.  I\'ve been to the doctor 8 times in the last two months and trust me, my insurance paid a lot and I got every cents worth.

I stand corrected.  You have "magic" insurance, that you don\'t have to pay for, yet covers everything.  

Now, who pays this magic insurance?   Oh, right you\'re your insurance is payed for by government.  I don\'t understand how you can talk about how great your insurance is and simultaneously diss the very government that supplies said insurance.

I also would like to clarify:

1. My youthful ignorance comment was not directed at you.  But I can see how your agreeing with Vassilos\'s might have made you think it was.

2. Our forefathers fought and won our independence from a FOREIGN government. That war had nothing to do with their desire for small government.  It was all about TAXATION without REPRESENTATION.

I\'m sorry you hate the system that pays for insurance that allows you to go to the doctor 8 freakin times in 2 months for FREE.  That system sounds like it really blows.

Your husband should quit his job and join the private sector with me.  Where a chunk of my paycheck gets striped out for my horrible insurance, that only really covers catastrophic shit. Everything else I need to pay co-insurance and my deductible.  Oh and if I ever get sick, then say get a new job, I will need to pay higher premiums because I have a pre-existing condition.

You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance.  Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.

Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.

[SkyePrizm]

You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance.  Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.

Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.

I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing:   no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox".  I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes.  Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that?  Pretty redic.  And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now.  Lot of things are squished into that fine print.  

Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines.  So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years.  i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400.  I\'ve been on both sides of this coin.  Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout.  Just the way i am.  Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.  

My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job.  Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault.  Its the insurance\'s fault.  Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc.  Blame them.  Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class.  Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.

And finally, are we really going to help the sick?  I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care?  I don\'t think so.  Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country.  Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance.  But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night.  If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away.  If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away.  I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.

Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for.  Greedy individuals who want more.  I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick.  It never does.

[Yoda]

You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance.  Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.

Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.

I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing:   no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox".  I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes.  Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that?  Pretty redic.  And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now.  Lot of things are squished into that fine print.  

Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines.  So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years.  i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400.  I\'ve been on both sides of this coin.  Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout.  Just the way i am.  Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.  

My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job.  Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault.  Its the insurance\'s fault.  Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc.  Blame them.  Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class.  Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.

And finally, are we really going to help the sick?  I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care?  I don\'t think so.  Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country.  Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance.  But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night.  If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away.  If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away.  I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.

Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for.  Greedy individuals who want more.  I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick.  It never does.

I am not in favor of this bill, but I will give an example where this will help "me"...

1. I was laid off in February and my family has been on Cobra for health insurance since.
2. That Cobra will run out in 15 months if I don\'t find a job and unfortunately, since I receive the max in unemployment, I am not eligible for most state aid, including medicaid.
3. I cannot afford to buy medical coverage for my family at the cost it is now and it is my understanding that healthcare would either be provided by the state or at a discounted rate that I can afford.

There are free-loaders that haven\'t paid into the system that will benefit from this bill, but there are also hard working citizens that have paid into the system since they were 16 that will also benefit from it...  My thought is that not many people have read the 1000+ page bill (including most of the people that voted on it); I think that they really should have given people time to digest the plan before they pushed it through, but I think that there is some good here...

[SkyePrizm]

You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance.  Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.

Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.

I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing:   no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox".  I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes.  Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that?  Pretty redic.  And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now.  Lot of things are squished into that fine print.  

Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines.  So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years.  i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400.  I\'ve been on both sides of this coin.  Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout.  Just the way i am.  Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.  

My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job.  Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault.  Its the insurance\'s fault.  Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc.  Blame them.  Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class.  Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.

And finally, are we really going to help the sick?  I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care?  I don\'t think so.  Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country.  Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance.  But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night.  If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away.  If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away.  I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.

Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for.  Greedy individuals who want more.  I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick.  It never does.

I am not in favor of this bill, but I will give an example where this will help "me"...

1. I was laid off in February and my family has been on Cobra for health insurance since.
2. That Cobra will run out in 15 months if I don\'t find a job and unfortunately, since I receive the max in unemployment, I am not eligible for most state aid, including medicaid.
3. I cannot afford to buy medical coverage for my family at the cost it is now and it is my understanding that healthcare would either be provided by the state or at a discounted rate that I can afford.

There are free-loaders that haven\'t paid into the system that will benefit from this bill, but there are also hard working citizens that have paid into the system since they were 16 that will also benefit from it...  My thought is that not many people have read the 1000+ page bill (including most of the people that voted on it); I think that they really should have given people time to digest the plan before they pushed it through, but I think that there is some good here...

Good example, yoda.  you have a point. there are good things.  i think increased benefits for cobra programs and hard working citizens who lost their jobs is a plus.   another good example of people that will actually get help.  now if you are in college til 26, you can stay on your parent\'s insurance.  something i would have benefited from.  instead, i was cut off at like 21 because i was part time not full time.  

But as you said, what upsets me, i think that the majority of this bill will help the freeloaders who haven\'t paid in.  there are its good points, yes.  but i really feel this bill as a whole needed more time to be rewritten, reexamined, rethought out before it just got hastily pushed through.  i am not against ever having healthcare reform.  I am against universal healthcare.  i am against this bill and the way they are going about it.   i do believe we need to reform the whole doctor>insurance>pharmaceutical game.  I worked for pharmacies for about 8 years, 2 with cvs and walgreens for 6 years, part of it at the district office. and i know the absurd mark ups.  We need to reform at all levels.  But we need to do it the right and smart way.  Insurance is a small part of it.  Doctors over billing is also a huge part of the game.

[leith]

Sorry Tray but you and hubby are a part of the privileged few that
have the money to have the judgemental view common to the naysayers
of this new system. Just because u have the wherewithal to have made
something of yourself does not mean those that don\'t have what you have are
shiftless layabouts.

I don\'t have healthcare because of the cost and I dare
you to tell me I don\'t work my ass off. I am stoked I will finally be able to find some
kind of affordable healthcare that is not cost prohibitive due to my pre existing conditions.
like my vertigo.