Author Topic: Obama declares national emergency over swine flu pandemic, but why? (10-25-2009)  (Read 5431 times)

Yoda

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This is just an example and proves how easy it is to piss off you guys.  Class dissmissed.
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bdfreetuna

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I think it mostly proves what an immature selfish prick you are Yoda. Wouldn\'t have expected anything less. Thanks for taking a giant horse-shit on a serious thread. What else is new?
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leith

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Quote from: bdfreetuna;244711
Quote from: Yoda;244707
Sorry, but when you start throwing around martial law on this topic, your true colors shine through and they paint a red, white and blue elephant...

I voted for Obama because I thought he was a liberal. Maybe he is. Maybe he\'s a puppet just like the rest of them since Ronald Reagan.

I hate Bill Clinton because he pretended to be progressive when all he did was fuck the world over with "free trade" policies.

I\'d vote for Dennis Kucinich if the guy had a chance in hell.


Anyone who calls me a conservative can seriously bite me. Anyone who implies I am a facist can suck a nut. Anyone who think\'s I\'m crazy is almost certainly at least partially right. But that also doesn\'t mean I\'m wrong.

And for the record Martial Law isn\'t just some idea Pat Buchanan pulled out of his ass to scare gun owners. For fear of linking anything besides CNN and being labeled some kind of bullshit, read a wikipedia. It\'s nothing new to the United States of America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

Assuming you\'re too lazy to read most of these links and are just running your mouth to be a dickwad like usual, here\'s a few tidbits about executive orders. Executive orders much like Obama just enacted:

# Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.
# Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.
# Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.
# Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.
# Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.
# Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."
# Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.
# Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.
# Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.
# Martial law can be declared due to natural disasters, Y2k Crisis, Stock Market crash, no electricity, riots, biological attack, .... anything leading to the breakdown of law and order.

...

But you\'re right. I\'m just making this stuff up and my time machine is almost ready so I can go back in time to vote for Nixon.


You did not just tell some one to read a wikipedia for concrete information. You didn\'t. Really?

:lol: Awesome!
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krispy

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wikipedia is a reliable source for this serious thread.

leith

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Quote from: krispy;244717
wikipedia is a reliable source for this serious thread.


Damn u got me there.
Worrying is like praying for something you don't want.

bdfreetuna

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Along with my time machine I\'m developing technology to slap multiple people in the face with a frozen fish over the internet. Don\'t worry it\'s open source, you all can use it for free as well as tweak the code all you want ...

Read the fucking encyclopedia Britannica for all I care. Martial law has happened in the USA, there\'s no reason at all to believe it won\'t happen again.

Maybe try proving these facts wrong?

I\'m sure you\'ll be cracking up as this story develops and starts to affect your real lives.
Put the pointed pencil in the pepper-po and take a little sniff of the things below. :sadban:

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leith

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Quote from: bdfreetuna;244719
Along with my time machine I\'m developing technology to slap multiple people in the face with a frozen fish over the internet. Don\'t worry it\'s open source, you all can use it for free as well as tweak the code all you want ...

Read the fucking encyclopedia Britannica for all I care. Martial law has happened in the USA, there\'s no reason at all to believe it won\'t happen again.

Maybe try proving these facts wrong?

I\'m sure you\'ll be cracking up as this story develops and starts to affect your real lives.
What facts?
That there has been martial law? OK there was slavery too.
There was even a ban on alcohol I hear back in the day.


Wow wait a second. This is not my real life?
Mind= Blown
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inthewhitelodge

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Quote from: bdfreetuna;244703
Leith I thought the headies in California were supposed to be pretty good? ;)

And Yoda... myself or anyone in my family, honestly, would sacrifice their own lives for 1,000 other lives. I wouldn\'t even have to ask.

Edit again:: I\'m probably the least "right wing" person on this whole board, you complete moron! But once in a while reality gets in the way of what we liberals are "supposed" to believe.



Let\'s please clarify the differences between a libertarian, a right-winger, a facist, conservative, and a neo-conservative. My way of remembering: neo-conservatives pretend to be right-winger facists, but actually tend to support lots of money going to war and protecting the federal reserve banks; actions which are NOT conservative or facist.

As for this topic, isn\'t it all very grand that these vaccines are made in foreign countries, esp. connected to the business liason of the Rockefellers? Who knew modern medicine and technological advancement made it sooo necessary to buy stockpiles of unknown contaminants, all for the sake of saving lives?
"When I hold you, I hold everything that is-- swans, volcanoes, river rocks, maple trees drinking the fragrance of the moon, bread that the fire adores. In your life I see everything that lives."- Pablo Neruda:wave:

FreeSpirit

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I think the only reason that the FLU has become such a huge crisis is because of all the foreign shit they put into those shots.  

If you think about it, the human body is fully able to heal itself without all of these crazy medicines.  

Instead, people take a "flu shot" and think that they\'re cured.  But, the flu mutates each year to fight against the meds, and the docs need to keep creating new medicines to combat the "stronger" flu types.  

This, in turn, reduces our own body\'s capabilities to defend itself naturally.

<<<---- So, in short:  I\'ve never taken a flu shot, and I\'m still alive... so, I guess I\'m doing okay & I\'ll keep doing it! :awwyeah:  

(leith, is this crazy enough for ya?!) ;)
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krispy

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Quote from: inthewhitelodge;244724
Quote from: bdfreetuna;244703
Leith I thought the headies in California were supposed to be pretty good? ;)

And Yoda... myself or anyone in my family, honestly, would sacrifice their own lives for 1,000 other lives. I wouldn\'t even have to ask.

Edit again:: I\'m probably the least "right wing" person on this whole board, you complete moron! But once in a while reality gets in the way of what we liberals are "supposed" to believe.



Let\'s please clarify the differences between a libertarian, a right-winger, a facist, conservative, and a neo-conservative. My way of remembering: neo-conservatives pretend to be right-winger facists, but actually tend to support lots of money going to war and protecting the federal reserve banks; actions which are NOT conservative or facist.

As for this topic, isn\'t it all very grand that these vaccines are made in foreign countries, esp. connected to the business liason of the Rockefellers? Who knew modern medicine and technological advancement made it sooo necessary to buy stockpiles of unknown contaminants, all for the sake of saving lives?


Libertarian is a word I fee very strongly about.  I dedicate a lot of my free time and effort into the party.  Join us at http://www.lp.org

for a general definition a libertarian is:
   1. One who believes that the only legitimate purpose of a government is to protect the rights of its citizens.
   2. Anyone who supports civil liberties to a greater-than-average degree.
   3. Anyone who believes in minimal, decentralized government.

inthewhitelodge

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Quote from: krispy;244729
Quote from: inthewhitelodge;244724
Quote from: bdfreetuna;244703
Leith I thought the headies in California were supposed to be pretty good? ;)

And Yoda... myself or anyone in my family, honestly, would sacrifice their own lives for 1,000 other lives. I wouldn\'t even have to ask.

Edit again:: I\'m probably the least "right wing" person on this whole board, you complete moron! But once in a while reality gets in the way of what we liberals are "supposed" to believe.



Let\'s please clarify the differences between a libertarian, a right-winger, a facist, conservative, and a neo-conservative. My way of remembering: neo-conservatives pretend to be right-winger facists, but actually tend to support lots of money going to war and protecting the federal reserve banks; actions which are NOT conservative or facist.

As for this topic, isn\'t it all very grand that these vaccines are made in foreign countries, esp. connected to the business liason of the Rockefellers? Who knew modern medicine and technological advancement made it sooo necessary to buy stockpiles of unknown contaminants, all for the sake of saving lives?


Libertarian is a word I fee very strongly about.  I dedicate a lot of my free time and effort into the party.  Join us at http://www.lp.org

for a general definition a libertarian is:
   1. One who believes that the only legitimate purpose of a government is to protect the rights of its citizens.
   2. Anyone who supports civil liberties to a greater-than-average degree.
   3. Anyone who believes in minimal, decentralized government.


I consider myself to be a libertarian/constitutional hybrid, though I am registered otherwise. I used to think I was a facist, but I actually agreed more with facists (real ones, anyway, rather than CFR puppets)
"When I hold you, I hold everything that is-- swans, volcanoes, river rocks, maple trees drinking the fragrance of the moon, bread that the fire adores. In your life I see everything that lives."- Pablo Neruda:wave:

jocelyn

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Quote from: inthewhitelodge;244736
Quote from: krispy;244729
Quote from: inthewhitelodge;244724
Quote from: bdfreetuna;244703
Leith I thought the headies in California were supposed to be pretty good? ;)

And Yoda... myself or anyone in my family, honestly, would sacrifice their own lives for 1,000 other lives. I wouldn\'t even have to ask.

Edit again:: I\'m probably the least "right wing" person on this whole board, you complete moron! But once in a while reality gets in the way of what we liberals are "supposed" to believe.



Let\'s please clarify the differences between a libertarian, a right-winger, a facist, conservative, and a neo-conservative. My way of remembering: neo-conservatives pretend to be right-winger facists, but actually tend to support lots of money going to war and protecting the federal reserve banks; actions which are NOT conservative or facist.

As for this topic, isn\'t it all very grand that these vaccines are made in foreign countries, esp. connected to the business liason of the Rockefellers? Who knew modern medicine and technological advancement made it sooo necessary to buy stockpiles of unknown contaminants, all for the sake of saving lives?


Libertarian is a word I fee very strongly about.  I dedicate a lot of my free time and effort into the party.  Join us at http://www.lp.org

for a general definition a libertarian is:
   1. One who believes that the only legitimate purpose of a government is to protect the rights of its citizens.
   2. Anyone who supports civil liberties to a greater-than-average degree.
   3. Anyone who believes in minimal, decentralized government.


I consider myself to be a libertarian/constitutional hybrid, though I am registered otherwise. I used to think I was a facist, but I actually agreed more with facists (real ones, anyway, rather than CFR puppets)


ditto, registered independent
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jking

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to tuna~ please show me the last time when the ENTIRE COUNTRY was placed under martial law and forced to do any one specific thing.

Yoda

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Although I don\'t think it\'s going to come to Martial Law, here\'s a little history on the topic in the US...  The only time that I can find the whole country being under Martial Law was during the Civil War, but it was overturned by the Supreme Court...

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html

Constitutional Topic: Martial Law
 
The Constitutional Topics pages at the USConstitution.net site are presented to delve deeper into topics than can be provided on the Glossary Page or in the FAQ pages. This Topic Page concerns Martial Law. Martial law is not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, but the suspension of habeas corpus is mentioned in Article 1, Section 9, and the activation of the militia in time of rebellion or invasion is mentioned in Article 1, Section 8. The Topic Page for Military Justice may also be of interest.

The sources for this topic are, primarily, The Living U.S. Constitution by Saul Padover and Jacob Landynski (Meridian, 1995); Constitutional Law: Cases and Commentary by Daniel Hall (Lawyer\'s Cooperative Publishing, 1997); and ex parte Milligan, 71 US 2.

Note: please note the spelling of "martial law." A common mistake is to spell it as "marshal law" or "marshall law." A "marshal" is a law enforcement officer of, for example, the U.S. Marshal Service. There is such a thing as a marshal, but no such thing as marshal law.

Introduction
ex parte Milligan
Examples of Martial Law

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In strict dictionary terms, martial law is the suspension of civil authority and the imposition of military authority. When we say a region or country is "under martial law," we mean to say that the military is in control of the area, that it acts as the police, as the courts, as the legislature. The degree of control might vary - a nation may have a civilian legislature but have the courts administered by the military. Or the legislature and courts may operate under civilian control with a military ruler. In each case, martial law is in effect, even if it is not called "martial law."

Martial law should not be confused with military justice. In the United States, for example, each branch of the military has its own judicial structures in place. Members of the service are under the control of military law, and in some cases civilians working for or with the military may be subject to military law. But this is the normal course of business in the military. Martial law is the exception to the rule. In the United States, the military courts were created by the Congress, and cases can be appealed out of the military system to the Supreme Court in many cases. In addition, a civilian court can petition the military for habeas corpus.

Article 1, Section 9 states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held. A writ of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held. The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge. Suspension of habeas corpus is often equated with martial law.

Because of this connection of the two concepts, it is often argued that only Congress can declare martial law, because Congress alone is granted the power to suspend the writ. The President, however, is commander-in-chief of the military, and it has been argued that the President can take it upon himself to declare martial law. In these times, Congress may decide not to act, effectively accepting martial law by failing to stop it; Congress may agree to the declaration, putting the official stamp of approval on the declaration; or it can reject the President\'s imposition of martial law, which could set up a power struggle between the Congress and the Executive that only the Judiciary would be able to resolve.

In the United States, there is precedent for martial law. Several times in the course of our history, martial law of varying degrees has been declared. The most obvious and often-cited example was when President Lincoln declared martial law during the Civil War. This instance provides us with most of the rules for martial law that we would use today, should the need arise.

ex parte Milligan

On September 15, 1863, Lincoln imposed Congressionally-authorized martial law. The authorizing act allowed the President to suspend habeas corpus throughout the entire United States. Lincoln imposed the suspension on "prisoners of war, spies, or aiders and abettors of the enemy," as well as on other classes of people, such as draft dodgers. The President\'s proclamation was challenged in ex parte Milligan (71 US 2 [1866]). The Supreme Court ruled that Lincoln\'s imposition of martial law (by way of suspension of habeas corpus) was unconstitutional.
In arguments before the Court, the counsel for the United States spoke to the question of "what is martial law?" "Martial law," it was argued, "is the will of the commanding officer of an armed force, or of a geographical military department, expressed in time of war within the limits of his military jurisdiction, as necessity demands and prudence dictates, restrained or enlarged by the orders of his military chief, or supreme executive ruler." In other words, martial law is imposed by a local commander on the region he controls, on an as-needed basis. Further, it was argued, "The officer executing martial law is at the same time supreme legislator, supreme judge, and supreme executive. As necessity makes his will the law, he only can define and declare it; and whether or not it is infringed, and of the extent of the infraction, he alone can judge; and his sole order punishes or acquits the alleged offender."

In this case, Lambden Milligan, for whom the case is named, was arrested in Indiana as a Confederate sympathizer. Indiana, like the rest of the United States, was part of a military district set up to help conduct the war. Milligan was tried by military commission and sentenced to die by hanging. After his conviction, Milligan petitioned the Circuit Court for habeas corpus, arguing that his arrest, trial, and conviction were all unconstitutional. What the Supreme Court had to decide, it said, was "Had [the military commission] the legal power and authority to try and punish [Milligan]?"

Resoundingly, the Court said no. The Court stated what is almost painfully obvious: "Martial law ... destroys every guarantee of the Constitution." The Court reminded the reader that such actions were taken by the King of Great Britain, which caused, in part, the Revolution. "Civil liberty and this kind of martial law cannot endure together; the antagonism is irreconcilable; and, in the conflict, one or the other must perish."

Did this mean that martial law could never be implemented? No, the Court said. The President can declare martial law when circumstances warrant it: When the civil authority cannot operate, then martial law is not only constitutional, but would be necessary: "If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."

Examples of Martial Law

Through out United States history are several examples of the imposition of martial law, aside from that during the Civil War.

During the war of 1812, General Andrew Jackson imposed martial law within his encampment at New Orleans, which he had recently liberated. Martial law was also imposed in a four mile radius around the camp. When word came of the end of the war, Jackson maintained martial law, contending that he had not gotten official word of the peace. A judge demanded habeas corpus for a man arrested for sedition. Rather than comply with the writ, Jackson had the judge arrested. After the civil authority was restored, the judge fined Jackson $1000, which he paid, and for which the Congress later reimbursed Jackson.

In 1892, at Coeur d\'Alene, Idaho, rebellious mine workers blew up a mill and shot at strike-breaking workers. The explosion leveled a four-story building and killed one person. Mine owners asked the governor to declare martial law, which he did. At the same time, a request was made for federal troops to back guardsmen. Over 600 people were arrested. The list was whittled down to two dozen ring leaders who were tried in civil court. While in prison, the mine workers formed a new union, the Western Federation of Miners.

In 1914, imposition of martial law climaxed the so-called Coal Field Wars in Colorado. Dating back decades, the conflicts came to a head in Ludlow in 1913. The Colorado National Guard was called in to quell the strikers. For a time, the peace was kept, but it is reported that the make-up of the Guard stationed at the mines began to shift from impartial normal troops to companies of loyal mine guards. Clashes increased and the proclamation of martial law was made by the governor. President Wilson sent in federal troops, eventually ending the violence.

In 1934, California Governor Frank Merriam placed the docks of San Francisco under martial law, citing "riots and tumult" resulting from a dock worker\'s strike. The Governor threatened to place the entire city under martial law. The National Guard was called in to open the docks, and a city-wide institution of martial law was averted when goods began to flow. The guardsmen were empowered to make arrests and to then try detainees or turn them over to the civil courts.

Martial law and San Francisco were no strangers - following the earthquake of 1906, the troops stationed in the Presidio were pressed into service. Guards were posted throughout the city, and all dynamite was confiscated. The dynamite was used to destroy buildings in the path of fires, to prevent the fires from spreading. Troops were ordered to shoot looters. Though there was never an official declaration of martial law, the event is often cited as such. However, at all times it appears the troops took their orders indirectly from the civil authority.

Though not a state at the time, Hawaii was placed under martial law in 1941, following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Many of the residents of Hawaii were, and are, of Asian descent, and the loyalty of these people was called into question. After the war, the federal judge for the islands condemned the conduct of martial law, saying, "Gov. Poindexter declared lawfully martial law but the Army went beyond the governor and set up that which was lawful only in conquered enemy territory namely, military government which is not bound by the Constitution. And they ... threw the Constitution into the discard and set up a military dictatorship."

On 8/26/2005, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans was placed under martial law after widespread flooding rendered civil authority ineffective. The state of Louisiana does not have an actual legal construct called "martial law," but instead something quite like it: a state of public health emergency. The state of emergency allowed the governor can suspend laws, order evacuations, and limit the sales of items such as alcohol and firearms. The governor\'s order limited the state of emergency, to end on 9/25/2005, "unless terminated sooner."

There have been many instances of the use of the military within the borders of the United States, such as during the Whiskey Rebellion and in the South during the civil rights crises, but these acts are not tantamount to a declaration of martial law. The distinction must be made as clear as that between martial law and military justice: deployment of troops does not necessarily mean that the civil courts cannot function, and that is one of the keys, as the Supreme Court noted, to martial law.
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bdfreetuna

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to tuna~ please show me the last time when the ENTIRE COUNTRY was placed under martial law and forced to do any one specific thing.


The burden is not on me to continue this as if it were intended to be an argument to begin with.

I\'m going back to studying Advaita Vedanta, Tao Te Ching, Vedic Brahmanism, and Navajo creationism stories. Bye.
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