Author Topic: Was anyone else discusted by Bush\'s State of the Union Address Last Night?  (Read 59797 times)

skalnbyc

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The ONE and ONLY PBFans Political Pissing Contest Thread
« Reply #360 on: November 02, 2004, 01:01:37 pm »
Open border = open invitation to disaster.



Libertarian principles are closely aligned with me too.
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ChrisPitch

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« Reply #361 on: November 02, 2004, 01:28:54 pm »
I originally put this in the other political thread, but feel it\'s fair to put it here too considering it\'s Electon Day.

For the record, I am an independent who loathes Bush, did not favor Kerry out of the facistic nominees, and who thinks the greatest propaganda in our country is what the actual media doesn\'t show and the fact that all of the presidential candidates do not get coverage, aren\'t allowed to debate, etc. (and I\'m not just talking about Nader). Yes I know that candidates must receive 5 percent of the vote to be allowed to debate, but I disagree with using a finite number to determine if one is allowed to express the ideology behind their candidacy in a national forum. This basically says that if Nader had 4.99 precent he wouldn\'t be "worthy" of debating Bush and Kerry, but that if he had 5.0, he would be. Another in a long line of the blatant stupidity that defines our culture.

Of course, if everyone was allowed to debate, someone like Nader might actually win a state, which would force the media\'s hand to cover him, and get him some neccessary funding, which would pose a major threat to the RepubliCrats. So the two big parties know that their bread is buttered with the major networks and the golden handshakes will continue to be given so long as the only two candidates that get any "equal time" are the two that already have the most money.

I am voting for Ralph Nader, much as I did in 2000, and am proud to do so.

In any event...

A BASIC OVERVIEW OF THE THIRD PARTIES AND THEIR CANDIDATES (from CNN)

While the facists and facists dominate the headlines, many other political parties have eyes on the White House. Check out the parties below which have run presidential campaigns in the recent past and those that could contend this election season.

Reform
Many of the Reform Party\'s top issues -- opposing NAFTA and similar trade agreements, shedding the growing national debt and instituting political reform -- reflect the views of its founder, businessman and 1992 and 1996 presidential candidate Ross Perot. This year the party has endorsed independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader, and plans to formally nominate him at its national convention July 22-25 in Columbus, Ohio, according to party officials.

Green
The Green Party received national attention in 2000 when its presidential candidate, consumer advocate Ralph Nader, won 2.7 percent of the vote, infuriating some facists who believe Nader\'s candidacy took votes from facist Al Gore and helped facist George W. Bush win the closely contested election. U.S. activists formed the party in 1984, basing it on the German Green Party. The "Greens" stress environmentalism, nonviolence, social justice and "grassroots organizing" as a counter-balance to the two major political parties. Nader, also the party\'s 1996 nominee, is running as an independent in 2004, but still sought the Green\'s endorsement, even picking prominent party member Peter Camejo as his running mate. But the Greens instead nominated Texas lawyer David Cobb, who has made growing the party a priority and said he may adjust his strategy to ensure President Bush does not win re-election.

Libertarian
The Libertarian Party favors minimizing the federal government\'s authority in favor of a free-market economy, free trade, nonintervention in international affairs and a dedication to "personal freedom." In 1996 and 2000, investment adviser Harry Browne was the party\'s presidential nominee. At its late May convention in Atlanta, Georgia, Texas constitutional scholar and computer expert Michael Badnarik came from behind to defeat movie producer Aaron Russo and radio talk show host Gary Nolan to win the Libertarian Party\'s presidential nomination. Richard Campagna, an attorney in Iowa City, Iowa, took the party\'s vice presidential nod.

Socialist
While once a prominent national political force, the Socialist Party USA now focuses primarily on local elections and key issues, seeking the presidency on a "case-by-case" basis. The party platform, which it calls "both coherent and radical," faults capitalism for harming the environment, fostering economic inequality (particularly for minorities and women) and helping corrupt the government, and urges major institutional reform. Walt Brown -- a Navy veteran, lawyer and former Oregon state senator -- is running as the party\'s 2004 presidential nominee with Vermont teacher Mary Alice Herbert as his running mate.

Natural Law
Founded in 1992 to "bring the light of science into politics," the Natural Law Party advocates field-tested "solutions" -- such as mediation, organic farming and applying scientific laws -- in education, health, crime, trade, international affairs, environmental and other matters. In 2000, the party\'s presidential nominee was one of its founders, Iowa physicist John Hagelin, who also received support from a sizable segment of the Reform Party. The Natural Law Party will not nominate a presidential ticket this year, according to party officials.

Independence
Until last year, the Independence Party was the only third party with a governor in its ranks -- Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura. (Maine Gov. Angus King, who also left office in January 2003, was an independent and did not formally belong to a party.) The party was formed in Minnesota in 1992 and changed names when it combined with the Minnesota Reform Party in 1996. It cut ties with the national Reform Party in 2000 and returned to its original name. The Independence Party is now a state-by-state organization, not a national one, and a Minnesota party official said the party is not likely to nominate a presidential ticket. The party, strongest in the Gopher State, aims to attract "centrist voters" with its calls for campaign reform, nonpartisanship and anti-corruption and anti-lobbying efforts.

Constitution
In an anticipated move, the Constitution Party nominated Maryland attorney and anti-abortion activist Michael Peroutka for president at its national convention June 23-26 in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. The Constitution Party supports a strict constitutional interpretation limiting the federal government\'s roles, fighting the "corruptive influence of political parties" and bolstering the Bible\'s influence in public life, particularly the U.S. legal system. Chuck Baldwin, a Baptist pastor and syndicatd talk radio host, is Peroutka\'s running mate.

skalnbyc

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« Reply #362 on: November 02, 2004, 01:39:02 pm »
I have been annoyed with past debates as well because of the third party exclusions.  These 3rd party people have less to lose and have a greater incentive to speak candidly to the people and other candidates.  

Massachusetts Senator Tedd Kennedy was in a two way race for his seat with a Libertarian a few years ago and refused to debate her, even though the party has major party status in the state (Green\'s have major party status too).
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jocelyn

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« Reply #363 on: November 02, 2004, 01:54:58 pm »
The debates are a joke. They have been ever since... probably the Kennedy/Nixon debates. That debate is the best example I can think of. Even if you ignore the issue of their excluding 3rd parrt candidates (horrible), the debates are still ridiculous. It\'s all acting. I think television is largely to blame for this. It\'s interesting- if you watch the Kennedy/Nixon debates via a television, Kennedy is clearly the winner. Nixon was sweating, makeup virtually dripping off his face, wringing his hands- a wreck. Kennedy was calm, coherent, organized, confident, charming. However, if you LISTEN to the debates, without any visual accompaniment, it is not so clear who came out on top. It is even possile that Nixon had a better command of the actual issues.....

The debates are useless.
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jocelyn

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« Reply #364 on: November 02, 2004, 02:12:33 pm »
Not directly related to the election, but interesting
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leith

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« Reply #365 on: November 02, 2004, 02:20:32 pm »
I totally disagree with you on Debates Joc. How is the lazy TV latched populace of America going to hear what the candidates have to say? No one listens to radio anymore no one really reads the Whole newspaper, but many many watch TV. The debates may be a joke for those that actually investigate the issues and candidates but really the debates are for the majority of America that just wants the basic gloss so they can say they are informed.

Oh yeah  Kennedy\'s use of the media was brilliant and ahead of his time. Clinton sure watched Kennedy footage that is for sure.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 02:22:44 pm by leith »
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jocelyn

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« Reply #366 on: November 02, 2004, 02:28:05 pm »
Well, there you have it- the problem is indeed the American public. I don\'t think we disagree really Leith. The fact that no one listens to the radio or reads just inflames the problem of the debates; it has turned them into what they are today. However, I think it is a real bummer for those of us who do make a genuine effort to stay informed that we can\'t get a real debate, because the idea itself is great. I just don\'t think the debates serve the purpose that they were created for.I guess what I\'m trying to say is I don\'t think the debates should be dumbed down and turned transparent just because the general populace is dumbed down and transparent. I think there could be a way for debates to be televised and still have some credibility. I just can\'t think of one. :lol:
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ChrisPitch

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The ONE and ONLY PBFans Political Pissing Contest Thread
« Reply #367 on: November 02, 2004, 03:40:58 pm »
As was already said, one way to lessen the dumbing-down of the debates is to allow third-party candidates to participate. With less at risk, they\'re far more apt to call out their competition\'s flaws and maybe even speak in a way that isn\'t manufactured teleprompter garble. That\'s exactly why they\'ll never be allowed to debate. It\'s a threat. This is why I laugh at the notion that we have a "liberal media." You\'d think someone with a suit might actually notice this.

One way third parties have a chance is if all those who dislike both of main candidates lose their apathetic "I don\'t give a fuck" mentality, do their homework on one of the others, and should one strike them, get out and pull the lever. It starts with winning one state, a small one, such as a VT, or a NH, or a even a CT.

I dislike the facistic notion that if you vote for Nader, you\'re voting for Bush. Too many facists merely scratch the surface and disagree with the right just enough to distinguish themselves from facists, rather than directly attack them on the multitude of obvious errors. Kerry is another example. Dennis Kucinich wasn\'t and you know how he did (or maybe you don\'t). That\'s why I voted Nader in 2000 and will vote him again today instead of Kerry, Bush, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, Walt Brown, or Michael Peroutka.

With that said, I will not go to sleep unhappy if Kerry wins. I know the reality of the situation and I know it will only go one of two ways. I just hope it doesn\'t go the same way again.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 03:51:29 pm by ChrisPitch »

Wolfman

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« Reply #368 on: November 02, 2004, 10:44:03 pm »
Looks like this is gonna take weeks again.  The lawsuits are piling up faster than the precincts reporting.  2 predictions:

I know it\'s "close", but let\'s not kid ourselves: Bush is going to win.  He\'s got a lead, he\'s the defending champ, and if push comes to shove he\'s got his brother to make sure that the most important swing state goes his way.

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Wolfman

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This is silly
« Reply #369 on: November 02, 2004, 11:39:47 pm »
Cnn.com has a great website with precinct-by-precinct breakdowns for each state.  But they just projected California for Kerry with a whopping 0% of precincts reporting.  Why didn\'t they just call it for Kerry 2 weeks ago then?  Obviously they just want it to look closer so people will stay tuned.  I\'m going to bed...nothing will be resolved by the time I wake up anyways.

Wolfman

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W W W W W W W W W W
« Reply #370 on: November 03, 2004, 07:37:00 am »
FOUR MORE YEARS!



The thing that really made me worry about Kerry is that he never led in the last 6 months.  Give him credit for making it close, but close is all he got.  It\'s just like a basketball team that goes down by 18, then gets it back to within 2, but never takes the lead.  It happens all the time.  Those last two points are so hard.

So get comfy with 4 more years of the W.  If we don\'t kill at least 500,000 Iraqis during this term, I will consider this term a failure.  And here\'s some sunshine for all you Bush haters: He definitely won\'t win in 2008!

FrankZappa

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The ONE and ONLY PBFans Political Pissing Contest Thread
« Reply #371 on: November 03, 2004, 07:48:51 am »
no, but that wont stop jeb from running, and if the dems put up hillary against him, you might get a sweep for jeb just because people are afraid to have a woman in power. ugh. technically, there is a extremely small chance kerry could win on a technicallty, which will be enough to drag this out for at least 11 more days untill all the votes are counted. The thing that got me is that the dems couldnt even regain control of the houses. I thought that would be there chance for glory, but they blew that too.


If you want an interesting listen today, I suggest howard stern followed by rush. Complain all morning and gloat all afternoon.
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Wolfman

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« Reply #372 on: November 03, 2004, 08:13:31 am »
Quote
Originally posted by FrankZappa
no, but that wont stop jeb from running



You\'re right about that.  I already predicted Jeb victory in the "Coming in 2009" thread.  And the twins will run for president/vice president together in 2036, but will lose to Pecoraro/Maturo, completeing Dave\'s incredible run from Mayor of East Haven to the Oval Office.  The Breakfast play the victory party.

Drew_Kingsley

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« Reply #373 on: November 03, 2004, 12:07:55 pm »
Kerry concedes... GWB for four more years.
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davepeck

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« Reply #374 on: November 05, 2004, 10:32:48 am »