NYE LAST YEAR

[jocelyn]

If this actually works out, I\'ll throw down 20.

[Wolfman]

Did Tobacco Road really demand exclusive taping rights, and are they really holding the only known copy of the show for $500?  This goes out to all clubs:  

The next time some greedy club owner demands exclusive taping rights in their club for a jamband, and then holds the tapes hostage for $500, someone needs to stealth tape the show and mail the club owner a copy with a big FUCK YOU on the CD.  If every club did this then jam music would have died with Jerry.  No boots means no Phish, no String Cheese, no Particle, no Raq, and no PB.  There\'s no way we should pay to support actions that kill music.  

Serves TR right that they had to shut down if they\'re holding jamband shows hostage for $500.  They probably need the money to pay off the light rig that they never learned how to use.

[jefft]

I don\'t think it happened that way Wolf.  I think it just happened that nobody taped it, and they ended up with the only copy.

[ChrisF]

Originally posted by jefft
I don\'t think it happened that way Wolf.  I think it just happened that nobody taped it, and they ended up with the only copy.

Tobacco Road definately said no taping. Ben the taper told be he was there and the venue would not let him tape.

[kindm's]

I have taped there on many occassions and never had an issue. I was at this show and did not tape it. I feel very confident if I had shown up with my rig they would have let me tape the show. They never told me I couldn\'t tape for any show period. As a matter of fact they (Brad and Damien and etc) liked it when I would because they would get copies to listen too faster. Even in the early day before they had the PC rig we were giving Dave copies of shows and were generally the only tapers ever there.

I know that the wherabouts of these tapes is important but we need all the FACTS before anyone should start dissing Dave and others from Tobacco Road. Tobacco Road was always a huge place for the band to play, Dave can be heard on many tapes screaming Psychedelic Fucking Breakfast.

My suspicion is that if in fact they have said 500.00 it probably is what Arlo (the guy who did the pc recording) said he wanted for it. I am compeletly guessing at this point.

I would like to point out that many clubs and venues are doing the samething when it comes to recording. There are many Tapers here and other areas that would love to do this for a living. There is a huge difference between 2 track recording and Multi-track mix downs. If they were going to do the mixing and masteing of the recording then 500.00 is not that way out of line. The amount of time to master 24 Tracks etc is huge.

Also think of the $$$$ involved in regards to equipment. They probably never re-coup\'d the initial investment of the EQ being that when they started out doing it the EQ was even more expensive then today. Lets not forget that Tobacco Road was one of the first clubs to start doing high quality digital master recordings right off the board.

Also Dave and Tobacco Road were trying to launch a recording label so that may play into this. Keep in mind that not all tapers are about sharing music. It is just really nice that around here everyone is pretty open to sharing their recordings etc. Not all tapers are in to that. Many record for themselves and thats it.

I just hope that all of the raw recordings that they did are saved. Not just PB but all of them. I went to so many shows that were just of the hook there. It would be a shame if all that great material was lost

[Wolfman]

I\'m still trying to get the facts here.  I haven\'t accused TR of doing anything, and only said that IF they banned taping and are holding tapes hostage, THEN their character should be called into question.  

I cannot agree with kindm\'s that setting up great recording equipment and banning taping justifies charging bands $500 for their show.  You have to look at the big picture.  Taping bans and charging huge money for bootlegs will kill free bootleg trading.  Phish and the Dead and Moe. and everyone else did not build their empires by demanding exclusive taping rights and then selling $10 copies of their shows.  They did it by encouraging and supporting free taping and trading.  No new fan needs to pay for a 24 track mix for EVERY show they get.  If this were all that is available, then some people would buy one or two shows, and some wouldn\'t buy any, and bands would go nowhere.  An occaisional live album like Bona Fide is great, but paying for EVERY show means nobody would ever hear anything.  If anyone out there has ever collected bootlegs, look at your collection and figure out what it would have cost you at $10-$15 per show.  You wouldn\'t have any of those tapes or CD\'s, would you?  Didn\'t think so.    

IF Tobacco Road really spent thousands of dollars to get all this recording equipment with the intention of banning taping and setting up a record label that sold shows recorded in their club...well, that\'s about the worst business idea I\'ve ever heard and I\'m glad they went out of business before they could inflict any further damage upon jambands.  If that idea ever caught on, it would all be over in a hurry.

[kindm's]

First of all I never said anything about banning taping and charging for shows. What I was saying is that if they said 500.00 then there maybe a reason for it ie. Mixing mastering etc.

TR never banned taping at any show that I ever went to and Taped. They always taped the board while I was taping the AUD. They never told me I could not tape, not once ever. I am not sure who told you they were planning on banning taping there because in my experience it just isn\'t true. They did tape the shows with the intention of providing a service to the bands for high quality shows etc. It obviously wasn\'t a very lucrative practice given the fact that TR is no more. Actually near the end DAve was going to install a patch bay so people could patch the board but it never happened before the closure.

I taped many artists at TR that are bigger than PB when TR was taping the show and NEVER was asked not to tape. It just so happens that No ONE besides TR taped NYE 2002. I was there as well as other tapers and we took the night off. It would have been very difficult to tape that night given the crowd conditions, but I doubt that this mistake (of not taping AUD on NYE) will be made again.

Many bands don\'t allow taping when they are doing DVD shoots and Live recordings for release. I guess I just don\'t believe that TR told this person they couldn\'t tape, because it never happened to me even with similar or larger crowds

[freddiewaht]

i was asked not to record a show on videotape at tr but eventually got the ok!

[ChrisF]

I was there one time to tape a friend\'s band. Before i had gotten there the band asked one of the sound guys for a board patch for me so we could do a matrix. They were told that it would cost $50. It wasnt even a big show or anything. It was one of those shows where they have 4 local bands play for about 45 mins each. After the show the other sound guy said that he would not have charged anything for a soundboard patch. So i guess that guy just wanted to keep the money for himself and the cost depends on who you ask.

[kindm's]

I will say this. They usually never allowed board patches. I also agree that at TR it was kind of who you asked. I also had a good relationship with those guys so they always left me alone but I never saw them hassle any other tapers. The only time I ever had an issue was like Brads first day and he wouldn\'t let us set the mics up 5 feet from the stage

[FrankZappa]

i never ran into it, but I heard they put a stranglehold on vid in the later days like wah was saying. a lot of venues have weird rules like this. at toads, you can buy a vhs copy of the show for $50, but it will look like shit. its the video guy that charges it, not the club per say.

you also have webster, which will give you a board patch for free, but only post fader, so if the sound guy decided he didnt want to hear rons mic and turned it all the way down, your channel will be blank. plus, you have to re-balance the whole show before you can even mix it. This is the reason most webster shows dont get 24 ch releases. matt and the boys simply dont have the time!

another one is pearl st.  big$$ to do anything other than a single mic on the floor. they charged the hell out of the band for the privilage of recording bonafide.

basically, its a club by club and club employee by club employee kind of rule. yea it sucks, but if you were the only one that was going to be taping you should be able to get kroop to talk some sence into them. Most of the time its just one employee trying to make some extra cash, and as soon as the boss is brought into it the price dissapears or drops signifigantly. Its like going to cort to fight a speeding ticket. on the other side, some clubs just try to hold back everything and the best you can hope is that the band doesnt play there that much.

[Wolfman]

Well, we know this much:  TR was holding hostage the only known copy of PB\'s 12/31/02 show for $500.  

People, do not give money to support this.  Think about what you are doing.  When other clubs find out that Tobacco Road made thousands of dollars by selling copies of the shows played there, the other clubs will start banning taping and doing their own recordings.  You will very soon find yourself paying $20 for EVERY show, not just this one.  Not only does that mean huge costs and less music for you, but it means that smaller bands, including PB, will see much less distribution of their music.  You are hurting yourself, your fellow fans, and the bands by supporting this.

[kindm's]

I think the big point here is that TR never banned taping in an effort to profiteer from their multi-track recordings.

[Wolfman]

Originally posted by kindm\'s
I think the big point here is that TR never banned taping in an effort to profiteer from their multi-track recordings.

I completely agree that they probably did not ban taping.  However, the big point here is not whether TR banned taping at this one show or not.  That is a very minor issue.  The big point here is what I just posted above on how supporting club profiteering on jamband bootlegs poses a huge threat to the future of this music.

[Marcial]

I want the show

if it costs a few bucks, so be it

TR was in it for TR, not PB or any other band

I can\'t blame them for trying to make a buck