The Band Rivalry Throwdown Thread

[Klout]

they 94 body of work is more impressive, not denying that, but personally, 2005 bfast all the way.

Best phish in my mind:

december \'95
\'94
\'96
rest of \'95
Fall \'97
\'91-\'93
rest of \'97
\'98-\'99
2003
everything else
coventry

[zuke583]

Zuke did you see any phish shows in 94? I didn\'t ,  So I would have to go with 2005 breakfast.

come now, that logic is just silly.  but if that\'s our line of reasoning, then \'94 phish on disc > \'05 breakfast on disc

[Klout]

agreed.

94 > on disc

< on personal significance

overall the experience of bfast in 2005 was one of the best times of my life so that trumps out merely listening to anything on cd no matter how ill it is.

so for me, overall, 2005 bfast > 1994 phish

[Wolfman]

You can defintiely make the case for Jay-Z over Biggie or Tupac.  (Not both Biggie and Tupac combined, that\'s being quite facetious.)  The proper battle is Jay-Z vs. Puffy, and you must consider not only music that they perform in (huge edge Jay-Z) but also for overall accomplishment in production, bringing along new artists etc.  (Close battle there.)  I think Biggie or Tupac are more important rappers than Jay-Z.  Their songs meant a lot to a lot of people, Jay-Zs stuff is a lot of fun to listen and dance to but doesn\'t strike as deep or as often.   Jay-Z can step right up to Biggie or Tupac for persona and would crush both of them for overall accomplishment inside and outside of the studio, but he\'s not quite on their level for poetic skill or verbal delivery and is a significant level lower from them for importance.  I like Biggie and Tupac a little more than Jay-Z probably just because they come from a better era of hip-hop, but if you want to make the case for Jay-Z it\'s certainly there to be made.

[Klout]

yes the classic argument for those two over jay is he has less substance/poeticness to his lyrics. Tupac prolly deffinitly has the edge over both here but I think the substance is there in near equal amounts for jigga but its just less obvious.  He doesnt come right out and say it (too hard for that) but the deeper meaning is there.  Just gotta look a little harder. He is so slick and flashy though that a lot of people miss the deeper meaning of his stuff all together.

Motherfuckers -
say that I\'m foolish, I only talk about jewels
Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?

  That said, rap was originally about brining black street culture to the masses in a fun and profitable manner. And jigga is definitely the undisputed champ of that. So how can anyone else be the true king of rap?

And YES. If I had a choice of never listening to all the Jay-z albums or all Tupac and Biggie albums combined I choose Jay-Z without even a second of hesitation.




[FONT="]plus biggie and tu[/FONT][FONT="]pac never came out in BK with the [/FONT][FONT="]phish or did MTV un[/FONT][FONT="]plugged or sung about sour diesel or referred to themselves as ra[/FONT][FONT="]ps grateful dead or had a remiz to grateful dead beats.  Jay-Z is uber heady
[/FONT]

[Vassillios]

dmx v ja rule
dre v snoop
eminem v slug

[boombox]

Rick Wakeman vs Keith Emerson?

A no-brainer for me, but Emerson is just about the only other keyboard player I could think of vaguely in the same league as Rubber-fingered Rick.

However, in just pure Hammond playing in a rock genre only, I\'d place Vincent Crane, and then Jon Lord, over Emerson.

[delfunk1]

jay-z\'s first album "reasonable doubt" :thumbsup  everything else since then has progressively more and more medicore, with the exception to the mtv unplugged thing he did with the roots.

[Kaliguitar]

  That said, rap was originally about brining black street culture to the masses in a fun and profitable manner. And jigga is definitely the undisputed champ of that. So how can anyone else be the true king of rap?

Actually Rap was originally a Jamacian art form where a DJ would "toast" or talk over a previously recorded track.  It start out as "dissing" each others DJ gear and sound systems and developed into a a deeper art form.  As these artist imigrated to places like NYC the art form changed and the lyric content started to reflect the surrounding culture.  

Just a short history lesson from a music teacher.

[Igziabeher]

jay-z\'s first album "reasonable doubt" :thumbsup  everything else since then has progressively more and more medicore

^^thank you.

[Klout]

Most Epic phish show  ever:

12-31-95

Hands down.

[Wolfman]

  That said, rap was originally about brining black street culture to the masses in a fun and profitable manner.

:doh: OOF, definitely NOT true.  Need to go back and review some history my man.  Try reading Can\'t Stop Won\'t Stop or watching Style Wars for starters.  Granted, the period you mention definitely has happened, but if you break down all of hiphop history into 100 chapters this would happen around chapter 40.  So yes, it\'s been that way for a while now, but you can\'t say Jigga is the king of rap because he embodies what it was originally about, that shit is wack yo.  He embodies what it is like NOW, that\'s why he\'s so good and so successful... and why Biggie would smoke his ass like chronic straight off tha tree.  

Yeeeeeeah boy!

In other related matters, Chemical Brothers own Crystal Method, Prodigy, and Daft Punk!

[Klout]

sorry I meant commercial/modern hip hop.

I know it didnt start right off with ghetto people trying to keep it real, get a deal, and blow up.

The fact that it started with DJs throwing down beats at block parties in harlem then progressed from there with MCs adding lyrics about whatever > battling > whatever else is pretty irrelevant because no one from that era is even talked about in these best ever discussions and back then it was about just having fun, hosting a good party, or some good spirited dissing contests, not making money. All that was pretty much the primer for commercial mainstream hip hop, then there were lots of great early rap groups and it became a nationwide phenomena and yadyada...So anyway... fast forwarding to beginnings of modern, relevant hip hop, that statement is true and.... J A Y is the king.

anyway....no one wants to have the most epic phish show ever debate? I think big cypress has something to say about that.....and the went? dont count him out. and what about a little 94 somethin smoenthin?

[booztravlr]

How about Falco vs Vanilla Ice?

Or Devo vs Kraftwerk

[jocelyn]

sorry I meant commercial/modern hip hop.

I know it didnt start right off with ghetto people trying to keep it real, get a deal, and blow up.

The fact that it started with DJs throwing down beats at block parties in harlem then progressed from there with MCs adding lyrics about whatever > battling > whatever else is pretty irrelevant because no one from that era is even talked about in these best ever discussions and back then it was about just having fun, hosting a good party, or some good spirited dissing contests, not making money. All that was pretty much the primer for commercial mainstream hip hop, then there were lots of great early rap groups and it became a nationwide phenomena and yadyada...So anyway... fast forwarding to beginnings of modern, relevant hip hop, that statement is true and.... J A Y is the king.

anyway....no one wants to have the most epic phish show ever debate? I think big cypress has something to say about that.....and the went? dont count him out. and what about a little 94 somethin smoenthin?

I don\'t think this is the correct thread for the Most Epic Phish Show Ever discussion.