Author Topic: Recording industry sinks to a new low...  (Read 2484 times)

davepeck

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derickw

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Recording industry sinks to a new low...
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 10:36:01 am »
the continuing downfall of of the live music scene. thanks you greedy, self absorbed, money hungry pre-madonnas
never trouble trouble till trouble troubles you

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kindm's

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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 10:50:25 am »
Actually I would side with ASCAP BMI and the others on this.

They represent musicians and not the record companies for the most part.

The mom and pop shop listed in the article is basically complaining about $1000.00 a year to make sure they have covered themselves. Thats chump change. If they can\'t afford it then don\'t have people come in to your business and play covers. Pretty simple if you ask me.

We have to pay BMI and the others to have "On Hold" music for our customers.

It seems to me that they are claiming hardship when they turned to live music to draw more customers and make more money. They just don\'t want to pay the folks who created the art that they are promoting in order to make $.

The fees are nominal. The fines are not.
"You can bet everything will come to an end. It's going to be ugly and it's going to be a mess, and it's going to be something that somebody did in the name of God...."

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FrankZappa

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 11:29:51 am »
the law is the law. Bullshit as it may be.
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Todd

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 12:25:05 pm »
Quote
Andrus said a friend of his who owned a restaurant that did not feature music was contacted by a company looking to charge him because it owned the rights to a Hank Williams Jr. song, "Are You Ready for Some Football?" The song preceded every "Monday Night Football" telecast, which the restaurant carried on its televisions.
Are you SER???


Say goodbye to The Goodtime Boys!! :sigh:

And also, how do these "fees" get divvied up amongst the artists? How can ASCAP possibly know what covers were played in a small coffee house during the course of a year for which $400 was paid?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:25:05 pm by Todd »
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kindm's

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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 12:38:57 pm »
Quote from: Todd;151682
Quote
Andrus said a friend of his who owned a restaurant that did not feature music was contacted by a company looking to charge him because it owned the rights to a Hank Williams Jr. song, "Are You Ready for Some Football?" The song preceded every "Monday Night Football" telecast, which the restaurant carried on its televisions.

Are you SER???


Say goodbye to The Goodtime Boys!! :sigh:

And also, how do these "fees" get divvied up amongst the artists? How can ASCAP possibly know what covers were played in a small coffee house during the course of a year for which $400 was paid?


I am not sure how the $ gets divided but they will send in under cover operatives to sit and record setlists when it comes to fines. There was an article about a music venue in the mid west that had not paid fess in years and BMI sent folks in to take setlists etc.
"You can bet everything will come to an end. It's going to be ugly and it's going to be a mess, and it's going to be something that somebody did in the name of God...."

    Frank Zappa, Artist as Genetic Design Flaw,
    Ecolibrium Interviews, Vol #19

davepeck

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 12:39:30 pm »
the good news is, perhaps this will be the end to karaoke! ;)

Todd

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 12:51:08 pm »
Quote from: davepeck;151691
the good news is, perhaps this will be the end to karaoke! ;)


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright...until you hear them speak.

SlimPickens

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2007, 01:01:16 pm »
I would think they\'d be responsible for the fee\'s only if they were charging folks to get in and see these performances.

I wonder if these record companies could impose finds on street performers?

"Mr. Palmieri, we understand that you\'re destitute, mentally ill and your only source of personal revenue is busking.  But you were heard performing "Hey Hey What Can I Do" while standing in the gutter on Chapel Street.  You now owe Robert Plant $45,000."

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 01:12:11 pm »
on the list of people that should never get upset about people playing their music, led zeppelin should be at the top.
Postcount +1.

Drew_Kingsley

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 01:27:08 pm »
So... should we stop posting setlists?

I can understand this law (sort of) when it comes to something like the Good Time Boys, because they are advertised as playing the music of RHCP at a venue that is charging money.  But for something like Timmy Tour in a bar that isn\'t charging a cover, it\'s ridiculous.  At least Tim has enough originals if this ever happened to him (though I don\'t know how much he would enjoy playing only originals at acoustic gigs when he could be doing the same and getting paid more for Breakfast shows).
Go see your Breakfast, there are starving Leiths in California

jking

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 01:42:16 pm »
how can a thousand dollars be chump change to a coffee shop operating in the red? hell, to anyplace that\'s operating in the red?

what if all i do is play, say, jackson browne covers at the coffee shop and i\'m the only person who plays covers at that coffee shop and that coffee shop does, in fact, pay its dues. can be proven that jackson browne is getting all the money paid to ascap or whomever? and if not, how can that company then argue that it is enforcing for that artist?

seems to me that, rather than enforcing century-old laws in a manner sure to produce an even worse reputation for an industry already looked at as evil, they\'d perhaps work on coming up with some way to deal with this issue in the 21st century. because, if they haven\'t been able to figure it out yet, their efforts so far are causing the death of their own industry.

is the extra few dollars a night (and in a coffee house, it is literally an extra few dollars) brought in by those folks playing covers really worth the bad press? or do you charge, say, clear channel, more than the coffee shops? that\'s one thing that wasn\'t clear in the article - does the fee change according to venue size, amount of live music, etc? if so, again, it should place the onus of costs on the real clubs, etc. so much so that going after the couple hundred bucks from a place that doesn\'t even make that much from its music doesn\'t make financial sense.

now, i understand that most of these laws are for the protection of the songwriters and not the performers. like, no money at all is going to britney, but a bunch is going to the people who actually write her songs. and that seems perfectly fair. but how the hell can you say, at any venue, who got played how often without literally having someone sitting in every single venue in the entire nation? and if they aren\'t doing that, then i would imagine a half-way decent lawyer would be able to poke holes in their \'enforcement\' techniques. sure, what they\'re doing is legal, but are they treating every single venue the same? and if not, doesn\'t that show unfair bias in enforcement?

kindm's

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 01:52:20 pm »
Quote from: jking;151703
how can a thousand dollars be chump change to a coffee shop operating in the red? hell, to anyplace that\'s operating in the red?

what if all i do is play, say, jackson browne covers at the coffee shop and i\'m the only person who plays covers at that coffee shop and that coffee shop does, in fact, pay its dues. can be proven that jackson browne is getting all the money paid to ascap or whomever? and if not, how can that company then argue that it is enforcing for that artist?

seems to me that, rather than enforcing century-old laws in a manner sure to produce an even worse reputation for an industry already looked at as evil, they\'d perhaps work on coming up with some way to deal with this issue in the 21st century. because, if they haven\'t been able to figure it out yet, their efforts so far are causing the death of their own industry.

is the extra few dollars a night (and in a coffee house, it is literally an extra few dollars) brought in by those folks playing covers really worth the bad press? or do you charge, say, clear channel, more than the coffee shops? that\'s one thing that wasn\'t clear in the article - does the fee change according to venue size, amount of live music, etc? if so, again, it should place the onus of costs on the real clubs, etc. so much so that going after the couple hundred bucks from a place that doesn\'t even make that much from its music doesn\'t make financial sense.

now, i understand that most of these laws are for the protection of the songwriters and not the performers. like, no money at all is going to britney, but a bunch is going to the people who actually write her songs. and that seems perfectly fair. but how the hell can you say, at any venue, who got played how often without literally having someone sitting in every single venue in the entire nation? and if they aren\'t doing that, then i would imagine a half-way decent lawyer would be able to poke holes in their \'enforcement\' techniques. sure, what they\'re doing is legal, but are they treating every single venue the same? and if not, doesn\'t that show unfair bias in enforcement?


Dude,
$1000.00 is nothing and it has nothing to do if they charge you to get in or not. We have to pay the fees simply for having music on our Phone system.

This is not the record companies. These are the companies who protect musicians and song writers.

lets put the shoe on the other foot. Say a major touring act liked a Breakfast song and were playing it fairly regularly. Would you think it was BS for Tim or whoever wrote it to get paid ? Now I am not sure how the $ gets paid out.

Same goes for the internet. You create a piece or artwork that you made and put it online. Someone sees it, likes it, and then takes it and puts it on their site. Would you not want to be compensated for your work ?

Also I think the issue is 2 fold. I believe that the venues are supposed to pay a flat fee to these folks like BMI, ASCAP etc but I also think the bands are supposed to submit their setlists to these companies and pay for using the songs. I recall a Rolling Stone article from not too long ago where Frank Zappa\'s wife was pissed off that all these bands cover Franks tunes and don\'t pay. I guess bands not submitting setlists is common but they are supposed to.
"You can bet everything will come to an end. It's going to be ugly and it's going to be a mess, and it's going to be something that somebody did in the name of God...."

    Frank Zappa, Artist as Genetic Design Flaw,
    Ecolibrium Interviews, Vol #19

kindm's

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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 02:07:09 pm »
here is a link to their page about licensing. It doesn\'t include the fees but is interesting none the less.

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html
"You can bet everything will come to an end. It's going to be ugly and it's going to be a mess, and it's going to be something that somebody did in the name of God...."

    Frank Zappa, Artist as Genetic Design Flaw,
    Ecolibrium Interviews, Vol #19

SlimPickens

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 02:17:27 pm »
Quote from: kindm\'s;151704

lets put the shoe on the other foot. Say a major touring act liked a Breakfast song and were playing it fairly regularly. Would you think it was BS for Tim or whoever wrote it to get paid ? Now I am not sure how the $ gets paid out.


Bands like The Dead and The Black Crowes expanded my record collection ten fold thru their choice of covers.  Ya think any of the surviving members of the Flying Burrito Brothers are gonna chase Chris Robinson or The Palace Theater for some lousy $1000 or thank him for the fans, like me, that came outta their shows wanting to hear the original version of White Line Fever?

Is this copy write infringement or free fuckin\' advertising?  It\'s greed, plain and simple greed.