Interesting Article

[leith]

it all depends on what you are looking to get out of a show... I go for the following reasons:

1) enjoy music
2) hang with friends

I don\'t feel a need to be a part of any "community".  As has been stated before, GD was spawned in the 60\'s... when people our age were revolting / protesting / and being activists... people felt the need to be a part of something... not anymore.  These days, things are much more about the individual as opposed to the community.

Some bleeding hearts out there think they are doing good by kicking down miracle tickets or chipping in to some wookie family\'s gas fund so they can make it to the next show... personally, I ain\'t lifting a finger to help this guy get to the next show, when he\'s been a tour rat for the last six months and I\'ve been at work!  Here\'s a tip more of these guys should take to heart...if you can\'t afford a ticket & gas, stay the fuck at home!  The guy who wrote this article made it sound like these people reducing their number of shows is not an option, so we should all be "brothers" and help them out... GO FUCK YOURSELF AND THE "COMMUNITY".

Marcial you are part of a community. This community. Kicking down free tickets is fun for the person doing the giving. I have done that many times. It is all about Karma. I believe that the goodness that I do might actually come back to me some day (as I believe the bad might as well and thats scarey )

Also if i have spare change at a show I will sometimes give it away. I have done the same to homeless people in DC and all over. I dont usually launch in to a diatribe of why they should get a job and blah blah blah. Where would we be without the kindness of others.

There have been times in this community where i forgot something at home or whatevr and folks have helped me out, made my night and even made new friends. It is about give and take. I give sometimes I take sometimes it all works out.

I completely agree with the BIG F-YOU when it is the same people begging at shows though. they can get a job and work like we do

Exactly.
 As for Marcial\'s question \'Leith, do you think people who cannot afford tickets & gas money should be at every show? Yes or no?\'

 I think it\'s none of my business and when someone asks me for spare change I do one of 2 things give or say sorry man and move on. I do not know that person\'s situation and how they came to be in that position. If I see the SAME person over and over I may say something to the effect of \'dude come on\' or if they have some story down pat and I know it to be false I will call BS on them. Sell tapes in the lot and I will protest and offer people the same product for free . I am all about participation w/o altercation if possible. That just comes from my hippie upbringing.

[kindm's]

I would just like to add. Great Discussion !

This thread has not turned to name calling or threats of violence, and I would just like to point that out because it is a rare thing onthe intenet when folks disagree

[Igziabeher]

I had a hard time reading that, and well, skipped around to get the full effect w/o wasting my time reading that bullshit.  You don\'t have to look as far as the \'Family Appreciation\' thread started by Jim Cobb the other day to realize that everywhere lies a \'community\' so to speak.  Current formations of which may not be as huge and grandeose(sp?) as the Dead or Phish scenes were, but it still lives on in the smallest of atmospheres.  I\'ve talked to countless people who say that they get the same feelings they used to get at Dead shows nowadays at Disco Biscuits, moe., Breakfast, fill in your favorite band here shows, etc.

I can only discuss what I have experience w/, but I know that my life is way different and better off right now thanks to my \'family\' I\'ve met through going to so many moe. shows.  I can name hundreds of amazingly great people from all across the country who bend over backwards for eachother and do all they can to make sure no one is left out.  Hell, sometimes telling them that I can\'t go to certain shows is like pulling teeth, they just won\'t take no for an answer.  And it isn\'t just shit like that, hell I got a job because a moe.ron friend of mine knew I was in a bad situation and they went out of their way to help me out.  

Really, if he feels that way, its his loss.  Maybe he\'s just bitter because he no longer has Phish stats to fuss over, but whatever he thinks, its all a bunch of bullshit as far as I\'m concerned.

[leith]

What you seem to not get from the article is one of the facts that he mentioned . Moe.rons are a small circle of people as are Breakfast fans as are Um fans etc. All he was lamenting in the article is that he noticed a huge difference in the scene of years past to now. He then mentioned the reasons he believed were the cause of it. Why is that BS? I do not see a single thing in the article that deserves to be belittled. He is right in all of his observations as some posting on this thread have proved. It was merely an observation on his part that I happen to concur w/ whole heartedly. As I said b4 until a group achieves the stature of bands past the "community" will continue to evolve in smaller local circles which is not reallly a bad thing but I as the writer miss having 10\'s of thousands all singing the same song, dancing, partying. I mean COME ON there is a huge difference in having a few hundred people maybe a thousand or 2 all on the same wavelength and 20,000 or more . THAT is what I really miss.

[Igziabeher]

yeah, I hear ya.  but what I\'m saying is why does there have to be XX,XXX amount of people to acheive that.  You can have that many people, but if its diluted by people there \'just to score drugs\' or \'just to make money\' etc., then its not gonna be the same anyways.  I guess that is what he is saying, but for now, I\'d rather go to a 5,000 people moe. show or a 100 person breakfast show and achieve more or less the same thing.

[Igziabeher]

straight from the horses mouth:

"Sure the music was the centerpiece - as many people were forcibly reminded after Jerry\'s death - but that isn\'t the only thing that was there. There was a culture present. There was an assumption that people would help out complete strangers; more frequently than not that would actually happen. When I first started seeing them, the feeling of being accepted was a large part of the attraction. As great as the music was - and it was indeed great - there was also a feeling that there was something going on beyond just that, a gathering of like minded souls who spent the rest of their time hiding that side of themselves from the world. It was powerful."

and then he goes on to say some shit about it only occuring at String Cheese shows and some festivals, and that right there is bullshit.

[Igziabeher]

this right here: \'Fast forward to 2005. While there are many wonderful people seeing the shows, outside of SCI and some of the festivals, there is active antagonism towards the idea of shows being about more that music.\'  bullshit.

[leith]

No not BS as can be seen by some posting in this very thread. There is antagonism towards those that see shows as part of a larger whole and are more than abt just the music. It\'s there. Hippiebacklash whatever you wanta call it. It is there. He just pointed it out.

[WALSH]

To say that SCI is the only band that fosters a "community", "family" whatever onthe road is absurd.  Unless you tour endlessly with every band out there(which I know is impossible, but humor me), you have no way of making a statement.  That is just falling back on either stereotypes you hear of a band\'s crowd or from a one-off bad experience that one might have at the random show he/she attended of said band.  Trust me I feel this unwarranted "hating" alot due to my love of a certain band or 2.  

Go for the music.  If you can\'t afford "tour", don\'t do it.  Go home for a month or 3 and get a f\'in job.  Then hit it upo if that is all you want to do.

[davepeck]

^^^ words of wookdom.