A very frustrated FAN vents

[FrankZappa]

I liked the breakfast with jordan.
I like 4 piece jam bands.

I like the breakfast as a trio,
I like 3 piece progressive bands.

Does that mean they are no longer a good band to me? no. It does mean I categorize them differently in my music selection however and the 3 piece doesn\'t jam any better than the 4 piece did prog. Both had/have good aspects. It depends on my musical mood at the time.

[Overexjoesure]

I just find the Breakfast being labeled progressive rock absolutely hilarious.  Axe half the song catalog, stop the PLR  classic rock  covers, and write about 20 multi part epics, and maybe they\'ll come close to reflecting progressive rock.

[Stephengencs]

I just find the Breakfast being labeled progressive rock absolutely hilarious.  Axe half the song catalog, stop the PLR  classic rock  covers, and write about 20 multi part epics, and maybe they\'ll come close to reflecting progressive rock.

easy there guy........they, have been a "jamband" for 95% of their existance.   However it appears at this point in time they have really been a progressive rock band stuck in the guise of a jamband.  Tell me that certain jams circa....oh....lets say 99 - the present day havent gone extremely progressive in their nature......but who the fuck knows they can pretty much do what they want with their instruments and sound, so I am hoping for down the road, maybe a glimpse of El Desayuno - salsa infused house trance style.

[Overexjoesure]

But Steve, improvisation isn\'t really a feature of most progressive rock bands. Any improvisation at all is usually done over very precise and difficult chord changes. I think they\'re more of a neo-psychedelic band than anything else.

[jking]

i have no solutions, only observations.

there\'s still a lot of space to fill in their overall sound. the keys filled that space before and they do not do so now. if they\'re not going to replace the keys (which i\'m fine with, but jill is turned off by) then they just need to keep working on their sound so that space is filled all the time. like dave said, and other people have tried to get at, there\'s a big hole in their overall sound these days. not all the time, but that almost makes it worse, in that when it does become apparent that there\'s an empty space in the music, it glares against the sound of when it is filled. and when that happens during a show (or even worse, back to back songs) its off putting. as jill said after her first (and only)three piece show - you used to be able to let your mind wander and drift with the music, knowing that there would always be something there to catch you. now, if you do, you may fall in a hole and be jarred back to reality. and that throws folks off of what they\'re used to from breakfast shows.

now, what to do about it? get a keyboard player, have him learn all the tunes, practicepracticepractice, then reveal him once its a gelled thing. sure, finding someone who will be in a band but not getting paid until they truly fit isn\'t very likely, but that\'s how i\'d go about it.

or just keep practicing, keep releasing three piece tunes, keep learning the intricacies of this new monster, take the hits while its still forming, and hopefully end up better than ever.

i will say that after 2005 i thought they were really and truly on their way, finally. there\'s a reason every other show had a best ever this or a greatest ever that. that band was truly reaching its pinnacle. the bitch of it is that, unfortunately, they had to essentially start over. and just as folks were really getting excited, they got cooled off again. it really sucks and i commend the band for getting through it. but that was also jarring for the fans. old fans want the band they grew to love over seven years, new fans want the band they\'d just gotten turned on to and brand new fans are wondering where the jamband is. bring on the prog rock, but i\'m not real sure that\'s a bigger, better audience to shoot for, either... one thing is sure, they need a coherent, constant point of view, as a band. be a jamband, be a prog band, be a hip hop band, be a rock band, whatever. right now it seems like that\'s still being figured out. sure, they\'re having fun and playing great, but it needs to have a purpose.

i dunno. i do know that i don\'t envy them in this. frankly, as much as i slagged on phish from about 97 on, i still saw every show i could, and they kept not listening to me while getting bigger and bigger, so.....

[Stephengencs]

Fair enough.. I understand the concept of improvisation versus composed.  But what if Tim composed a "jam" in his head (which he does all the time), then when he was playing it during a jam section of a song, it may appear to be improvisational yet it was actually composed.....

Regardless, I like the term neo-psychedelic......

I had recently thought, in thinking about this band in my spare time which i have been doing a lot of late, that maybe they are just a bit ahead of their time.  Maybe that is why a lot of people aren\'t responding to the music the way some of us would like to see......

[oldnewbie]

In the coming weeks there will be a serious promotion push linking all new fans to this board, and I hope we can try to make this a supportive fourm for posative ideas and thoughts concerning this band.  Nobody is saying that constructive criticism is bad or wrong, but please lets try to make it constructive.....posting what you have heard other people say they dislike about the band, in my opinion, is about as far from constructive criticism as you could get......

 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   i agree with gregg except .....one of their "knocks" has been that they "sound too much like phish." they need to avoid that IMO.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I believe that "sounds too much like phish" comment has expired. That thought has been around for a long long time and since then, they have stopped playing phish until they played golgi last month.........now that they are a 3 piece and have matured as musicians, not to mention that phish has REALLY been gone for a few years now, i dont see the problem/issue anymore.......

they wont play any song if they dont think it sounds good.....
i dont see the problem if they want to bust out some sick phish tunes......golgi not so much a sick phish cover choice in my opinion though.....not at least until people actually start buying tickets to see the band before actually arriving to the show....                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
expired?....then why did a member of moe. say it too me just last september? oh ...and by the way...they haven\'t worked together since before that. coincidence? you, me and others may not believe it but that stigma is far from expired IMHO despite the switch to the trio. the two criticisms that i hear the most are
1. terrible singers
2. sound too much like phish



my initial post was nothing but constructive criticism and my next post was in response to the blinders that you are obviously wearing. since i never really listened to phish very much until i started seeing the breakfast, i\'ve never found the comparison to be all that correct....but others, in this case, someone with credentials in this business, see it differently than you or me. someone who has hired the band on a number of occasions but doesn\'t seem to be doing it anymore. i don\'t even have to ask why....he as much as told me. the fact may be "expired", but the perception certainly isn\'t. why shouldn\'t i discuss the feedback i get from people that i bring to the shows or from people that i\'m trying to turn on to the band. oh wait...i get it...only if they say good things.

[Overexjoesure]

It\'s not ahead of its time, however it relfects a long lost, and often neglected genre of music, kraut rock. Listen to bands like Can, Amon Duul II, Dzyan, Agitation Free, Cosmic Jokers and Ashra Temple, you\'ll hear exactly what The Breakfast is trying to accomplish with their improvisations.  That\'s why I\'m constantly trying to share music with others, so by getting a better understanding of the past, they\'ll hopefully appreciate the underapprecaited, deserving bands of the present.  The band needs to refine their sound and find a market to stick to.  If this means axing LDZ, Funk Bill\'s etc, then so be it, sacrifice for the better of the team. But like you said Steve, it\'s not our decsion to make, and it\'s sure our place to continually point out the 3,000 lbs pink elephant in the room!!

[Stephengencs]

are you calling me a 3000 lb pink elephant?

[Overexjoesure]

fuscia better?

[jocelyn]

in thinking about this band in my spare time which i have been doing a lot of late

You have only been doing this as of late? :lol:

[Stephengencs]

You have only been doing this as of late? :lol:

its a different type of thinking i suppose.....
ha!

[bdfreetuna]

Dave and Klout .... excellent posts, that\'s some well thought out stuff. And I feel ya.

Problem is whenever I\'ve tried to express these kinds of sentiments I get jumped on for being an asshole. Maybe I am an asshole over the internet but some of you kids who\'ve met me face to face have some idea what I\'m about... *anyway* ...

The first thing I will say is this:
When Jordan left the band I missed that show because I had no idea that was going to be his last night. As a serious fan going to over fifty shows in like 5 years time.... WTF?!. I took that as a BURN and damn right I\'m still bitter. We all shoulda known about that as far in advance as was possible.

...

Second thing I will say:
I have no qualms about stating my opinion about the band. I\'ve been to mad shows and brought so many people and introduced lots of people to Breakfast. 99% of what I\'ve said about this band has been absolutely glowing, how they kick sooooo much ass, and you gotta see them to believe them.

I make these observations because Psychedelic Breakfast has been an important part of my life and I love those guys and I want to see them succeed to whatever extent they desire.

So the last show I went to was the last Northampton show. And there was something, I don\'t know, just wrong about it. It was the weakest show / crowd / vibe I\'ve ever seen at Breakfast in Northampton. I mean, Pearl St. shows back in 2002 and 2003 kicked that show in the ass.

And its not like I don\'t know what the deal is around here. I talk to a lot of kids who used to be into Psychedelic Breakfast. And these are the "heady" "hippie" "dreadie" whatever-the-fuck type of kids. And they couldn\'t give two shits about some ummm-progressiverock? band called The Breakfast. But boy do they have some fine memories of Butterfield and Fire and Water..

The Breakfast has been and especially now is turning away the core of their fanbase! Some of you say fuck those hippies LETS ROCK SUCKA... well that\'s cool if you want to get all new fans!

And IMO I\'ve said it before I\'ll say it again right now... The Breakfast is one of the sickest jam bands of all time..... annnnd The Breakfast is not that cool as a "prog rock" band!

So do they want to be the best of one genre... even if that genre has the cursed name "jam band"

Or do they want to be a "prog rock" band, that just happens to have a sick catalog of monster jam songs, that nobodys ever heard of? I mean... fuck it, why not just stick Mooboo\'s Voodoo back on the shelf ?

...............

The reason this post is so, ummm, well "emotional" or "bdfreetuna is an asshole" (depending how you look at it I guess) is because my enthusiasm for the band has declined sharply as of late. Going to Breakfast shows was my favorite thing to do for years...

and now I can barely find the groove.

[WALSH]

I think it is very good that they are changing...let\'s get real here, they weren\'t selling out Toad\'s as a four-piece either.  I find it very impressive and important that they are changing their sound wehter it be forced or not.  If "old" fans don\'t like it, so be it, maybe it is time for a new band?  Why should the band keep playing something that they obviously are beginning to move away from.  I say ditch alot of the "old" cliche jamband songs and move along with fugues and compositions that challenge the mind, while mixing in some electro or pop or whatever they want...it is their creation.  Let them do what feels right for them...if you don\'t like what you hear, there has got to be a band out there that will do it for you.

[Overexjoesure]

I think it is very good that they are changing...let\'s get real here, they weren\'t selling out Toad\'s as a four-piece either.  I find it very impressive and important that they are changing their sound wehter it be forced or not.  If "old" fans don\'t like it, so be it, maybe it is time for a new band?  Why should the band keep playing something that they obviously are beginning to move away from. I say ditch alot of the "old" cliche jamband songs and move along with fugues and compositions that challenge the mind, while mixing in some electro or pop or whatever they want...it is their creation.  Let them do what feels right for them...if you don\'t like what you hear, there has got to be a band out there that will do it for you.

But please leave Doughboy in the mix...