Author Topic: No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?  (Read 6704 times)

zuke583

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 11:02:58 am »
Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254692
Quote

* Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS.

You had me until this part. I\'m not sure who will fall into the "buying their own" sector, but I do know that if I don\'t want to pay for health insurance, it\'s not because I have a bunch of extra money to pay fines with.


haha right? what happens when these (most likely) poor people don\'t pay the fines? lock them up?
take a big bite of the fruit of your labor

Mamalakabubadaya

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 11:03:38 am »
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?

zuke583

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 11:05:33 am »
Quote from: jking;254691
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time


Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?


and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change

how does this all add up?
take a big bite of the fruit of your labor

Vassillios

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 11:22:38 am »
Quote from: zuke583;254695
Quote from: jking;254691
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time


Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?


and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change

how does this all add up?


it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing.
i think it\'s turning back on me / i\'m down on the upside

SkyePrizm

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 03:04:56 pm »
Quote from: Vassillios;254687
I don\'t know how i feel about this yet. Until it affects me, I have no opinion. Yes, I\'m selfish like that.


Well, if you are like my husband and I, it will affect you soon. Anyone who has beyond excellent exceptional medical, usually members of unions (police, fire, teachers, etc), are going to get an extra tax.....  which is unfair in so many ways.  So since my husband works a good  job with great benefits, we have to pay for people who are a) lazy b) ignorant or c) just have bad benefits.   Seems unfair.  Very communist.

Quote from: Vassillios;254698
Quote from: zuke583;254695
Quote from: jking;254691
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time

Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?

and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change

how does this all add up?

it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing.

actually, middle to upper middle class will end up paying shit loads.

per norm, middle class screwed over while the lower class who already collect way too many benefits get shit loads of more benefits that they will waste.

Quote from: Yoda;254631
Obama was going to do what he had to do to get this passed no matter what the American public feels about it...  It\'s just a shame that no one listens to the people anymore...


exactly, yoda.  this was going to happen whether people argued or not.  Obama will feel the heat in about two years when he\'s not re-elected.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 03:04:56 pm by SkyePrizm »

krispy

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2010, 03:35:43 pm »
wow, someone who agrees with me here!

SkyePrizm

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2010, 03:39:34 pm »
Quote from: krispy;254711
wow, someone who agrees with me here!

i\'m pretty peeved about this whole thing.  I think overall the majority of the country was very uneducated about what this bill actually is.  nancy pelosi and her propaganda trying to compare this to the civil rights movement makes me want to vomit.   Clips of her saying that this bill will prevent diabetes.  Hello??  nancy, diabetes is genetic.  The government can\'t stop me from gorging on candy and getting sick.  A bill will not do that.  Idiots.

And for people who think this won\'t affect you, it will. oh it will. maybe not today, but in like 5-10 years.   Or when you are seniors.  

but in any case, it seriously was out of our hands to control.  the only way we can stand up and let them know it was wrong is not to re-elect people in the coming years who voted for this mess.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 03:44:05 pm by SkyePrizm »

jking

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2010, 04:04:22 pm »
you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?

SkyePrizm

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2010, 04:08:26 pm »
Quote from: jking;254716
you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?

most people i know and talk to (reps, dems, and mostly independents) are not for this.  spin machine works on both sides.  cnn and msnbc and fox all have polls to show the opinion they want.  you need to look up unbiased polls and it shows.... as a country...we are not for or against this.  we are undecided.    Which to me is a huge red flag saying: UH OH.

CBS did a newspoll this weekend:

When asked how the reforms will affect the health care system, 29 percent of respondents said "Better" and 34 percent said "Worse." But 28 percent said they didn\'t know enough. And when asked if they understood the reforms, 54 percent of respondents said they were confusion, only 42 percent said they understood what\'s in the bill.

To me, that\'s scary ass stuff ^^^
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 04:12:32 pm by SkyePrizm »

SlimPickens

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 04:14:41 pm »
Because of how we have structured our healthcare over the past 50 years YOU pay 7 times more for it then people of other industrialized nation.

In 2000 the World Health Organization ranked the US health industry 36th.

You\'re paying more and getting less.  If you\'re ok with this, then keep arguing for the status quo.

This transition is going to be difficult, things will constantly need to be revised.  

The Swiss went through a similar transition in 1994.  If you\'re sick of listening to the Bullshit talking points from both sides of this argument and want to see a real interesting look at alternates to our system.  Watch

Sick Around the World, it\'s available online, through PBS frontline.

Here\'s a graph for Flounder to sit on:

« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 04:19:04 pm by SlimPickens »

Drew_Kingsley

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 04:22:03 pm »
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.

Yes, the facists used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
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SlimPickens

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 04:25:52 pm »
Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254720
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.

Yes, the facists used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.


While I\'m happy that we\'re moving forward with this reform process, I totally agree with you.

jking

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 04:48:07 pm »
so, skye, you (correctly) argue that people don\'t know enough about the bill, then argue that they\'re right to not want it. perhaps if they actually knew more about it, more would be for it?

per a usa today poll from today, 49% favor the bill, 40% oppose. not how it was handled, not how it will affect, just straight favor/oppose. most people favor. most are worried, also, that its done correctly in the long run, but most actually are for this. that\'s what i was getting at. your conversations with people are what\'s called \'anecdotal evidence\'. coming from a background in politics, i can assure you that anecdotal evidence is never accurate. whether its due to people wanting to not ruffle feathers or personal bias on the part of the listener, its never good information. blind/anonymous polls are the only way to get decent info.

this isn\'t meant to be a bashing post, btw, i fully respect that many people are afraid of this bill. i\'m sad that all sides (pols and media) have used scare tactics and hyperbole to get attention. i mean, the facists got almost everything they wanted in this bill and yet were still obstructionist. the dems caved on all the provisions that would have been most helpful. and the media pushed whatever inflammatory angle they could to get ratings. this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics.

SkyePrizm

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 08:06:41 pm »
Quote from: jking;254723
this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics.


this is something we can agree on! :)

I really feel like before we make bills that will change our country, we need to have a political reform of the way our country is run.

Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254720
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.

Yes, the facists used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.


very wise, Drew.  And very true.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 08:06:41 pm by SkyePrizm »

KEN RAFLOWITZ

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No one freaking on the Healthcare Bill?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 10:34:00 pm »
Shake up the shit, it\'s all a mess anyway!
It\'s NOT about health care reform, it\'s about having the POWER the POWER the POWER to make changes!
Passing this bill is a strong statement against those power hungry, greedy ASSHOLES who do
everything for their own self interests. They don\'t give a shit about the PEOPLE!
Obama is for the people, which is US! Obama is trying to break up this arrogant,
self serving, self centered, vicious group of political assholes who claim to be AMERICANS.
Get with the program people! The Bush administration was the WORST group of Fucked up
pieces of political garbage to ever run our country. They want their POWER back!
Please stand by our PRESIDENT! He is a very intelligent, aware man!
He wants the BEST for all of us! There is so much to go up against!
It will take MANY years to work out the MESS of George and friends.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 10:40:46 pm by KEN RAFLOWITZ »