A discussion about electronic music [SPLIT]

[peaches626]

rich and complex?

if forced to go with two words to describe the PA set, i go with boring and repetitive.

[Overexjoesure]

If you only knew what type of work goes into programming a set like that, I\'m sure your song would change.

[jking]

dude, when i go to a concert, i don\'t care how much coding went into it. i care about the music that gets *played* not programmed. how about learning how to create those sounds with an instrument instead of being lazy ass mofo\'s and using a computer.

If you only knew what type of work goes into programming a set like that, I\'m sure your song would change.

easily the most hysterical defense of a musical act, evAr!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:





now, THAT\'S a hot jam!!!!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Overexjoesure]

sssigghhhhhhhhhh......

[jking]

sorry dude, but i\'ve actually jammed with a guy who uses a lap top to make his beats. there is no opportunity for exploration or deviation, unless we stop and let him re-program. kinda kills the flow of a musical experience to have to stop and wait for the guy to re-code, ya know... if i break a string, they can all keep going and i can re-join once i\'ve re-strung. but if he stops, we all have to stop, since he can\'t get the beat to match us, we have to match him. and all this instead of someone actually taking the time to learn how to play drums.

isn\'t the point of a musical experience to have a communal moment, between the musicians themselves and also with the musicians and the audience? you can\'t have that if your musical conversation is forced to stay within certain boundaries due to a computer that will only play what its been told to. it becomes a stilted and boring conversation with inherent limits obvious to everyone listening. call me silly, but i like listening to music where anything can happen at any time, not something that\'s been prescribed beforehand, based on the computer\'s programmings....

[Overexjoesure]

That\'s you, and it\'s fine. I have my opinion of the blues, but I\'ll keep it to myself.  I don\'t expect electronica to be taken in by everyone, but I think people don\'t have close to  a full understanding of how difficult creating electronic music is. It\'s not just twisting nobs and looping "beats". It\'s programming exactly what  type of beat, tempo, pitch, which percussives are used, where to drop out, where to drop in etc. It\'s about taking out one nano second of a beat, just so you can fill that space with a barely audible synth wash, or sine drone.  To me live music is very limited. Electronica opens up the musician to the infinite and i think it\'s brilliant how musicians, over the years, have merged both live performance and programming in such a tasteful, gorgeous and entertaining manner.

[jking]

I have my opinion of the blues, but I\'ll keep it to myself.

as someone who claims to have a huge understanding of music, if your opinion of the blues is a negative one, all your credibility is completely lost.

It\'s programming exactly what type of beat, tempo, pitch, which percussives are used, where to drop out, where to drop in etc. It\'s about taking out one nano second of a beat, just so you can fill that space with a barely audible synth wash, or sine drone.

right, this is known as "drumming", with a references to a "percussionist" and a "keyboardist". and get this, they can do all those things.... are you ready.... on the fly. live. as it happens!!!

but yeah, live music is limited. live musicians in a studio can do everything you mentioned above while electronic musicians live can only do what they\'ve pre-programmed. after the programming (which isn\'t music) the programmer (who is not a musician, but a programmer) is no longer needed.

you\'re saying you would be more than perfectly happy to sit in a club and watch a screen saver while the pre-programmed music plays over the pa from the lap top centerstage. and you are not alone. and it is exactly that mentality which is killing live music. it no longer needs to be a communal experience, and in fact, so many selfish minded people are around these days, that they don\'t want a communal expeiernce. they want to go listen to something that does not challenge them, something they don\'t have to pay attention to, something they can passively listen to, something that does not require them to be a part of something that everyone else there is. that\'s why there will never be another dead or phish. because the audiences have changed. me, i like the human expeiernce. you, well, enjoy your computer, dude....

[Overexjoesure]

Cool man.

[leith]

STS9 PA sets are incredibly rich and complex.  BTW, smooth move manager talking shit publicy about  a band you should be networking with.

Most of the time they are and Phil should know better.

If you only knew what type of work goes into programming a set like that, I\'m sure your song would change.

They don\'t program the set they actually play a set.

dude, when i go to a concert, i don\'t care how much coding went into it. i care about the music that gets *played* not programmed. how about learning how to create those sounds with an instrument instead of being lazy ass mofo\'s and using a computer.

See this is where you misunderstand. STS9 uses their computers as instruments using a program made for live performance.

sorry dude, but i\'ve actually jammed with a guy who uses a lap top to make his beats. there is no opportunity for exploration or deviation, unless we stop and let him re-program. kinda kills the flow of a musical experience to have to stop and wait for the guy to re-code, ya know... if i break a string, they can all keep going and i can re-join once i\'ve re-strung. but if he stops, we all have to stop, since he can\'t get the beat to match us, we have to match him. and all this instead of someone actually taking the time to learn how to play drums.

isn\'t the point of a musical experience to have a communal moment, between the musicians themselves and also with the musicians and the audience? you can\'t have that if your musical conversation is forced to stay within certain boundaries due to a computer that will only play what its been told to. it becomes a stilted and boring conversation with inherent limits obvious to everyone listening. call me silly, but i like listening to music where anything can happen at any time, not something that\'s been prescribed beforehand, based on the computer\'s programmings....

That guy had shitty programs or he did not know what he was doing. STS9 concerts are some of the most communal shows going right now. How the fuck do you think they sold out Red Rocks? The audience and band meld is very palpable at STS9 shows. Anything can happen even during the PA sets.

Using the laptops is very much akin to using synths on a keyboard actually its EXACTLY like that and I never hear people bitch about keyboard players not playing actual notes while tweaking out on synths.

Well I\'m done.

[zuke583]

sts9 was fucking great at camp, as well as at jam on the river. jking i don\'t see how you can be so dismissive of an entire genre of music that\'s been around for more than half a century. and if you don\'t think seeing electronic music live can be a communal experience, you must have never seen electronic music live...the focus is entirely on the music and the experience (not 4 guys on stage) and it makes it much more organic

[Overexjoesure]

Leith, I know STS9 actually plays their PA set. I just meant programming in regards to choosing what beats, samples, synth loops etc.

[jking]

:lol: i\'ve been to plenty of live electronic music shows. most of them years ago (early 90\'s and before) but i saw bisco a year or so ago. i\'ve seen sts9, too. and my focus isn\'t on the four guys on stage, its on the music coming out of them.

if anything, i\'ll give you that electronica does have a very solid base in entrainment, which certainly produces a sense of communality. but beyond that, its dull, repetitive schlock! why force yourself into a confined area musically when its not necessary? nothing can be done by a computer that can\'t be done by an actual human being. its just lazy. yes, i can hit rumba on my casio keyboard and play over that for an hour and a half, but i sure as hell wouldn\'t PAY to listen to someone else do exactl that!

[skalnbyc]

I see more electronic music than any other genre (both live bands achieving an electronic sound as well as DJ sets) and I must say that STS9 was the weakest band I\'ve seen in that genre.  My girlfriend and I were laughing at how boring/redundant their music was.

I was really stunned that Bisco had to play before them at the show I went to.

[Overexjoesure]

I beg to differ.... I just don\'t think anyone should be shot over it  It\'s not so much about trying to grab each note that STS9 plays, but rather letting it take hold of you.

[Lexington]

i still need drugs to enjoy most electronic music, by a live band or by a bunch of guys on laptops who never take off their hoodies. even though that\'s not a huge sacrifice for me to make,i find that most elctronic acts never achieve the musical climaxes and "orgasms" experienced by band and audience during acts that actually have real musical instruments. the biscuits are sick but STS9 still hasn\'t done it for me