Author Topic: soo keyboardist?  (Read 12121 times)

jking

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« Reply #150 on: January 06, 2007, 09:25:55 am »
i don\'t think he literally meant something to "say", i think he meant more of a point of view. instrumental bands had better have more of something to say simply because they\'re instrumental and can\'t use lyrics to help. and miles *certainoly* had a point of view with his music. he was saying things in ways in which no one every had. same with bird, coltrane, mo9nk, hell, most of jazz.

and to cobb\'s point, the single main reason that i hear that folks can\'t get into tB is exactly what he described. yes, they are great musicians, yes, they play really fast, but at the end of the day, why? what commonality or uniqueness are they trying to express? if there\'\'s a bunch of changes, why are they there? to say something or just to have changes? the dead had that amazing, bittersweet organicism, phish had quirkiness and (in the early days) phenomenal musicianship. i actually think that the three piece helps them have a new way of expressing themselves. they are not a group of hippie dippie dudes, their influences have heaviness all around. so it seems likke they are trying to take jam music in a more muscular, heavier direction. not all swirly synths and noodly solos. one would think that there\'d be an audience for that mixture, but it seems like folks aren\'t ready to put peanut butter in their chocolate yet. most of us like our jambands swirly and our aggressive music rawkin\'. it seems to me that they\'re trying for more of an aggressive jam sound with the three piece, in an attempt to get closer to what they are like and prefer as people, as well as to differentiate themselves from the rest of the bands out there. will it work? obviously even from fans its hard to get folks to fully accept and groove upon the new approach, but adding another keyboardist would be contrary to what i perceive is their new aim. that being said, please bust out some trio tunes soon, so folks can get a better idea of what the new point of view is, than from trying to figure it out listening to older songs that have just been re-arranged.

and as for my personal opinion on the matter. either have keys or don\'t. stop hoo haafooting around in the middle! 12/23 seems to have far fewer excursions to the keys and i tell ya what, me likey!

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #151 on: January 06, 2007, 09:33:17 am »
:that:

yeah man, i didn\'t mean lyrics at all.  miles DEFINITELY had a very deep rooted point of view and look: he\'s one of the most famous musicians of all time.
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FrankZappa

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« Reply #152 on: January 06, 2007, 10:33:11 am »
that\'s why I used him as an example. jking explained his point pretty good.
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leith

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« Reply #153 on: January 06, 2007, 01:15:53 pm »
and I constantly get shit for having pretty much the exact same views just posted. :sigh:
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freddiewaht

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« Reply #154 on: January 06, 2007, 02:01:38 pm »
:banghead:
take the E to the A to the D...you\'ll be all set

Klout

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« Reply #155 on: January 06, 2007, 02:47:51 pm »
Quote from: JimCobb;130292
. you\'re introducing a totally reconstructed sound. it might not be what many of your fans came to see originally


i.e. psychadelic funk

good point also about no one really realizing how risky it really was, I think your right. I think the lack of concern could be a serious problem if it equals not continuing to actively seek out a new keyboardist.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 02:47:51 pm by Klout »

bdfreetuna

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« Reply #156 on: January 06, 2007, 03:07:24 pm »
Klout I hope you enjoy your next PB show, I think you\'ll find they still play some decent music ;)

Since Jordan left its definitely seemed a little *transitional* at times, esp with Tim just starting to get adjusted to having the keys setup beside the guitar. But in the last 6 months they\'ve basically stopped doing all the things that I weren\'t that cool and replaced them with things that sound a lot better.

That\'s a sign to me that these guys are fully aware of what they\'re doing and aren\'t going to stop at anything less than what their own idea of perfection is. And with that I can look forward to plenty more moments of musical bliss in the future!

... and its an established fact that seeing them live can\'t be compared to listening to a recording after the show !
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jocelyn

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« Reply #157 on: January 06, 2007, 03:12:03 pm »
Quote from: bdfreetuna;130302
... and its an established fact that seeing them live can\'t be compared to listening to a recording after the show !


That\'s the truth. To be honest, I hardly ever listen to their recordings, live or studio.

And most people I try to turn on to the band are hesitant until they have been out to see them.
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Ant-Man

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« Reply #158 on: January 06, 2007, 06:27:58 pm »
Quote from: jimcobb

this is just based on my own observation of the history of the music business and my direct experience with the modern, dying music industry.


I met a kid last night that is 17 years old, he played guitar for me and some friend for bout half hour. he shreds the strings, has perfect pitch, and I bet he can play over any set of changes you give him.  he also said he went up against tim palms in guitarmagedon (spell?) and tim basically won, but tim told the kid after wards that he infact beat him.  The kids arguement was that Tim has made a name for himself over the years and basically has had a 10 year jump start on things due to age.


we have been manipulating sound for a long time, it\'s so advanced now that I really don\'t know what to say about this anymore.
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jocelyn

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« Reply #159 on: January 06, 2007, 07:35:39 pm »
Regarding your last sentence...

Welcome to the "analog-digital shift."

Strange times we are entering.
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characterzero

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« Reply #160 on: January 06, 2007, 09:25:30 pm »
I hardly ever post here, but this thread did catch my attention.  The posts about their music "not having a point" really made a good point.  Right now I\'m listening to Coltrane\'s A Love Supreme, and even though it\'s pretty much an instrumental album, it speaks volumes.  And while I love The Breakfast\'s playing, it never seems to really express too much.  Tim\'s lines are incredibly well phrased and melodical for the most part, but it does does seem that there is very little point to the songs.  Like I can dig kind of silly songs like, well, most of The Breakfast\'s songs, but there\'s no real underlying message.  I mean where are they coming from, what is their playing really trying to express? Even with a band like Phish who had more than their share of stupid/silly lyrics and musical moments, they still had something they were definitely going for, and their playing emoted certain feelings and thoughts through the textures they created.  It\'s seems like while the Breakfast have developed "their sound", most of the sound stays the same.  It\'s also hard now for them to expand on their sound because such a big part of their sound was the organ.  The B3 was part of what really gave off that vintage vibe, and now that it\'s gone I think The Breakfast need to focus more on changing their songwriting.  They need to embrace this time as a trio as a chance to really work on their own message.  There should be more variety in their songs.

In closing, while I\'d love to see a new keyboardist (as I\'m sort of one myself) I think for the time being, the focus should be towards taking the music to it\'s maximum potential.  They already can put on a sweet and tight show, and they all (esp. Tim) have incredible chops, they just need to really time some time and thought to harness their incredible potential.  (Don\'t get me wrong, I think they\'re great already, but there\'s even more within their collective abilities that they haven\'t shown us yet.)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 09:30:19 pm by characterzero »

Jim Cobb

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« Reply #161 on: January 07, 2007, 01:21:09 am »
Quote from: Ant-Man;130331
I met a kid last night that is 17 years old, he played guitar for me and some friend for bout half hour. he shreds the strings, has perfect pitch, and I bet he can play over any set of changes you give him.  he also said he went up against tim palms in guitarmagedon (spell?) and tim basically won, but tim told the kid after wards that he infact beat him.  The kids arguement was that Tim has made a name for himself over the years and basically has had a 10 year jump start on things due to age.


we have been manipulating sound for a long time, it\'s so advanced now that I really don\'t know what to say about this anymore.

i dont understand how this correlates to what you quoted from my post.  nor do i see how it correlates to anything being discussed...  i\'m sure you\'re trying to say something, but i\'m not sure what it is.  no sarcasm there, just trying to understand this post.
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Ant-Man

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« Reply #162 on: January 07, 2007, 09:49:01 am »
Quote from: Jim Cobb;130341
i dont understand how this correlates to what you quoted from my post.  nor do i see how it correlates to anything being discussed...  i\'m sure you\'re trying to say something, but i\'m not sure what it is.  no sarcasm there, just trying to understand this post.

lol, I thought about this after I posted and wasn\'t near the computer ;).
the kid I met is a very good guitar player, and I just think it going to be very hard for him to do anything in the industry, things being so advanced.  I wonder what the next step for music is sometimes.  Pretty much you have to love music to play, and expect not to capitalize on it, because frankly it\'s all been done before.  It\'s just a thought.  If you got guts to get up infront of ppl and play I think you deserve some respect tho.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 09:55:04 am by Ant-Man »
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FreeSpirit

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« Reply #163 on: January 25, 2007, 08:24:50 pm »
woohoo!!!  I hear jeff bujac is available
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Klout

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« Reply #164 on: February 15, 2007, 07:01:49 pm »
how about jason press?