The Grand Song Selection Debate

The Grand Song Selection Debate
Posted by WALSH on 11 Dec, 2004 10:56
Good to see the show was good. I feel like ASS!!!

Here is a question to stir up a little debate while I am at work. For a long time the band didn\'t add many new songs at all. Now this new batch of songs come out and are all very good. The only thing I am wondering is why they get playe d almost every night, especially due to the fact that almost all of them(other than Gravity) have little to no improvisation in them and other than energy levels are all pretty standard readings? There seem to be alot of repeats as of late and I was wondering what people\'s take on this was?

Do they have a formula for picking the setlist or do they just wing it when they sit down to write it? Do the new songs(not really that new anymore) have to make an appearance every night?

Chew on that I gotta go to work.

#1 Reply
Posted by WALSH on 11 Dec, 2004 11:09
Here is my point explained ina different way. Let\'s say last night\'s show was an average # of songs(looks like it), that would put song total at 17(w/ encore). They have 45 original songs(46 if you include the song on RR that hasn\'t been played yet. This means that they could go 2 whole shows and 3/4 of the 3rd show without any repeats and that is just playing originals which ain\'t gonna happen.

Using last nights list again they played 3 covers which I would say is about avg for the band on any given night. This would mean that they could easily go 3 shows without a single repeat in a setlist.

My main point is that they would again(only my opinion) gain a larger fanbase if they mixed up setlists a little more. People aren\'t going to want to travel to see the same 10 or so songs over and over again(here I am talking about others than the diehard CT area fans). What do ya think?

#2 Reply
Posted by Drew_Kingsley on 11 Dec, 2004 11:18
Inner Glimpse has been known to be on Real Radio (and potentially a single) for a while now. Dig, Doughboy, Fairy, No Regret, and Gravity are all on or were once "in consideration" to be on the album. I would imagine that the band was playing them to gauge crowd reactions and to learn what they can do which each tune live. Just my guess...

#3 Reply
Posted by helluvahat on 11 Dec, 2004 11:28
I think its album promotion.....just trying to give every crowd a taste of what\'s going to be on the album.

they also might be trying to reach out to a slightly different crowd by playing the less jammy songs....

#4 Reply
Posted by WALSH on 11 Dec, 2004 11:42
That is fine to do your album in a way that will attract other fans with shorter more radio friendly songs, but the ones that are going to see your concerts are those music fans that like originality and adventure in music. Ask alot of people what their one complaint about moe. is and why that band has remained stagnant over the last 5-6 years. They play the same songs over and over again...they might have gained new fans along the way but they were also losing fans at the same time. Keeping things fresh is important in this type of music. Realize that they are going to tour in promotion of the album in earnest when the thing comes out in Feb and all these songs are still going to be getting repeated play that is 3 months from now....think about how many times these will be playe dby then? Just a thought though.

#5 Reply
Posted by WALSH on 11 Dec, 2004 11:46
And Drew they aren\'t really doing anything crazy w/ Dough or No Regret live they are all pretty standard readings of both.

#6 Reply
Posted by helluvahat on 11 Dec, 2004 11:57
I hear ya Walsh. Since they are relatively short, they are only a minority of the set though and do serve to keep the energy going. Plus they usually do a decent job of alernating them from show to show (maybe not so much lately).

#7 Reply
Posted by Wolfman on 11 Dec, 2004 12:09
Quote
Originally posted by davepeck
oh **** that\'s right.. where was fariy? i wanna say right before gladys...

:no: As clutch as the Yankees right there.

Quote
Originally posted by WALSH
...they could easily go 3 shows without a single repeat in a setlist....

You\'re right, but I\'m not sure how much of a problem it really is. They\'ve always gone real heavy on the new stuff. I\'m pretty sure that every show I\'ve been to this year they\'ve played at least 2 out of 3 of Doughboy, Inner Glimpse, and No Regret. When the new batch was Dig, Fiery Ball, Score, Food For Thought, and Cosmic, they were playing 4/5 of those every night. They just like to get used to the new stuff and see where it fits in the show. I haven\'t minded the heavy play of the new batch, although I was getting sick of that other batch a couple of years ago. I think this is the best batch they\'ve ever had, and they\'re constantly getting better at jamming the new songs, so I don\'t mind hearing them several times because I like seeing where they go. However, I can understand if someone would rather see a better mix of old and new and rare covers. I can particularly understand this coming from a Biscohead, because The Disco Biscuits are the most innovative setlist band ever.

It\'s very hard to gauge if this really keeps people away though. I think the effect is probably negligible. How many people have left their second or third Breakfast show saying, "Well, that was good, but I heard a lot of the same songs the last time. I\'m not really down with seeing them again." I\'m sure there\'s been a couple but I doubt it\'s really that many.

Another similar aspect I\'ve never been sure about is how many people go to see The Breakfast or any jamband to hear particular songs off a new album. For years the band has used the line, "Come to this show, and see songs off their new album, (Deuce, Bona Fide, or Real Radio.)" Have other jambands used a similar message? Jamband fans often have a song or two they\'d like to hear at any band\'s show, but do they go to shows with a "hear the latest hits" mentality? I know this is never the case for me personally. I recall seeing MMW and The Slip (different shows) shortly after they released new albums. I had the albums was hoping to hear some songs on them. However, hearing these songs was not my motivation to go, and I wouldn\'t have cared one bit if they played nothing but old material. But that\'s just me. I\'m curious what other people think of the "See songs from the new album!" strategy and what people think about heavy play on new material.

<>

#8 Reply
Posted by Igziabeher on 11 Dec, 2004 12:49
Honestly, those partiular songs you speak of that they seemingly play every show now(No Regret, Inner Glimpse, and Doughboy) impress me more and more every time I see them played. And last night was no different. Although it wasn\'t up to the level that the Fairfield show was, this was a SER evening indeed. And remember, the band is playing for the rest of the crowd moreso than the dozen or so of us that are at most of the local shows. What we diehard Breakfast fans consider \'standard\' everybody else in the crowd is watching in amazement. You need to get back in your element walshie and think about what you\'re saying.

That being said, it would be nice for them to come out with a batch of new tunes. They\'re more or less finished with the album, they might as well put some more music down on paper, just to keep things fresh for them. and really, i can\'t complain about any of the more recent songs, so all the more reason for them to write more.

#9 Reply
Posted by leith on 11 Dec, 2004 12:56
Newbies all. Anyone that is complaining abt song rotation has not been on tour AT ALL. From GD to ABB to Phish and on and on and on EVERY jamband has had detractors due to setlist rotation. Deal w/ it. These bands all have a rabid fanbase that could care less what is played and the majority of these bands play the HELL out of new tunes. The songs have to find a life of their own in concert and it gives the band members ideas for studio tricks. I remember hearing Touch of Grey like every freakin\' show before it came out on album and many other songs in the latter canon where also played ALOT. I\'d rather hear Doughboy and No Regret every nite than not.

#10 Reply
Posted by Igziabeher on 11 Dec, 2004 13:13
yeah, compared to all other bands, its no different than any other band in this supposed \'scene\' I\'ve had to deal w/ Phish Summer 2000 when Farmhouse just came out, and moe. Summer \'02 when they laid down the tracks for their Wormwood album onstage nearly nightly, so this is nothing new for me.

#11 Reply
Posted by boombox on 11 Dec, 2004 13:26
I\'m as much a fan of the early songs as the next diehard and would also appreciate more open-ended jamming, but the boys have got to eat!! The new album will have to be promoted the caca out of and then I\'m sure they will start varying the setlists again - check out past shows around album releases, if you don\'t believe me. With so many original songs now, rotation will be more difficult than it was when Deuce came out.

It does appear that the RR songs are getting a bashing, but as has been suggested, they will be the songs that will be hopefully turning on a huge army of new fans to the band. And after all, if the boys get the break they deserve, they will be expected to play the new stuff in TV shows etc, keeping the jamming to a minimum. Yes, we know they can play anything in their sleep, but the public are fickle - one dodgy performance or show where they don\'t play what is expected, I think we all know what will happen. Yes, they won\'t lose true fans, just the much needed income.

I think we all know that normal service will be resumed - Tim would get bored and can you honestly see Animal being caged?? I thought not. I cannot see any time when they will go down the moe. route of the same sets over a two night run for a couple of years, or worse still be like Maroon 5, who have been playing the same hour long set for 2 years.

Don\'t panic. At least you get the opportunity to see them almost when you like at the moment. When the public at large finally realise what they\'ve been missing, tours will be nation- (and hopefully, world) wide and shows will be less common.

#12 Reply
Posted by Stephengencs on 11 Dec, 2004 13:51
Personally I think the band does a pretty good job of mixing up their tunes. Throwing in bustouts and playing tunes they want to play.

#13 Reply
Posted by skalnbyc on 11 Dec, 2004 14:43
Quote
Originally posted by WALSH

Do the new songs(not really that new anymore) have to make an appearance every night?

Sounds like Walsh is longing for a Gypsy Girl>Love Lake>Kote>Late and the Great>Prom 97

I think that Fairy may have ended up on the Gypsy Girl/Love Lake scrap heap if they didn\'t revamp it into the powerful version that is now going to be showcased on Real Radio. It\'s pretty amazing when you compare Fairy now to the Fairy of a few years ago. Doughboy and No Regret get me amped every time.

I love old stuff too but have been more excited than ever when live at the shows. The band never disappoints me!

I still hope we get a random Gypsy Girl or Love Lake out of the Blue one of these nights (Cafe Nine?).

Good Thread! I\'ve enjoyed reading all your insights and setlist case studies of previous bands.

#14 Reply
Posted by skalnbyc on 11 Dec, 2004 14:46
Quote
Originally posted by alexanderzurflu

The band never disappoints me!

I obviously didn\'t make the trip to Canada last year.