achmmm mmmmm mmm m, so I shall say this.... board taps, like Chris said, do sometimes lack channels depending on the room and equipment I am limited to. Each venue does sound different from the other and there is a limited amount of consistancy I can have on the road as far as room sound quality. Because of these issues, and the fact that we do not have our own production console, the band and I have agreed to not allow board taps. Until I can have the same console to work with every night that allows me the ability to give out quality board taps, I will encourage audience recordings only.
Audience recordings have there ups and downs, however, they do capture the live experience we all enjoy at the show. The "echo" effect is always in audience recordings; popular recordings such as any "phish bootleg" would proove this point. Granted most recordings of their shows in the past years have been in stadiums, however, the same "stadium" effect applies everywhere...simple acoustics class would help...no offense
If ever anyone would like to come to the sound area and talk about taping, I would love to enjoy a nice conversation of geek like sound talk with anyone willing to indulge..... Love you all.....
I understand AUDs as ALL having a natural echo, but with some of the shows, NYE for instance just sound atrocious. Again, this is not the taper\'s fault or Josh, but rather the room, or as I just learned the fact that the band doesn\'t have a production console yet. It just seems that the quality of taped shows went from cavier to Big Macs.... Again I mean NO OFFENSE and appreciate everyones hard work!!!
cool.... webster does sound like poop, its an echo chamber... just out of curiosity, when did the shows start sounding like la Big Mack
to address what joe is talking about...
the matrixes that matt and i used to do were done \'on the fly\'... we had a mixer that brought in the aud (on-stage) mics and sbd feed together, and they were mixed as one before they hit the DAT. this was a very simple way to do a matrix.
unfortunately, there\'s other factors involved here.. you can\'t do the type of matrix i talk about above with mics out in the audience, because there is a delay between what the mics hear, and what\'s coming out of the board. this is the reason we always had mics on stage. by doing this, you lose your audience recording, so if the board feed sucks, and you end up with a shitty matrix, if no one else is taping, you\'re stuck without an audience recording.
as time has passed and i\'ve moved onto computer recording, i run a matrix at pretty much every show i record. the difference is, i use actual audience mics rather than having them on stage, so i always have 2 recordings. the sbd/aud delay is not an issue here, because i\'m recording 2 separate files. afterwards, i can line them up any way i want.
unfortunately, doing a post-mix of a matrix is a timely process, because i\'m not just gonna set it and forget it.. i\'m gonna sit and listen to an entire show, and adjust sbd/aud levels accordingly, then go back and listen again to make sure i\'m happy with it.
another factor, and a reason why you don\'t see more matrixes on disclogic, etc, is that about 80% of the board recordings i get have clipping throughout the entire show, that i have zero control over. this makes the show unlistenable, and is why you\'ll only see aud recordings of these shows.. this goes back to what josh said about different boards - if i get a board where i can\'t control the gain of the output for my recording, it\'s most likely not gonna be usable..
cool.... webster does sound like poop, its an echo chamber... just out of curiosity, when did the shows start sounding like la Big Mack
im not trying to start fight here, but this kid has no idea what he is talking about.
I dont know Josh, cant say. I guess every show fluctuates. I really hope you guys get a console. Paypal account anyone? OR the band could sell SBDs mixed by you Josh and use the proceeds for the console!!
Geez Fitz because you must have the same ears as God Almighty....
If you take a look at my massive show list, which I listen to on a day to day basis I think you will notice that I have a lot of experience listening to various sourced shows. So please take your basless assumptions elsewhere.
In terms of recordings, a matrix recording is a direct soundboard feed (typically left,right) mixed with 2 audience microphones (left,right) to produce a 2 channel (left, right) mix.
A POST matrix is when the soundboard and audience mics are recording seperately (typically 4 channels; 2 left, 2 right) and then are mixed to 2 channels(left,right) at a later time. The advantage of this is the ratio of board vs. aud can be changed to produce the best sound (what sounds best to the engineer). If the soundboard doesn\'t sound good more audience mics can be mixed in and vice versa.
Multitrack recordings are where individual vocal, guitar, drums, bass, and keyboard microphone/direct channels are recorded separately and then mixed at a later date creating a completely different mix and effects from the live board mix and in some cases avoiding clipping, distortion and too much reverb.
Multitrack matrix = multitrack + audience mics. all mixed at a later date at the discretion of the recording engineer. This method gives the most control over the mix and the desired sound in a production environment. It does not necessarily reflect more natural sound or have the original intent of the musicians or the live engineer, but this "live" recording will have a better blend of all instruments and clarity all at the control of the mixing engineer.
From what I recall, for the following reasons soundboards are not released:
1. The band does not like the way soundboard sounds as they don\'t alway represent the way the band sounded live.
2. Dobz may not have time to deal with a patcher.
3. There was an idea that the band could sell multitrack, matrixes and soundboards, and a fear that nobody would buy a multirack, matrix, or soundboard if it were free on the internet. Audience recordings would always be free to tape and distribute according to the taping policy The band never fully utilized the change in taping poicy to their advantage. I still believe that there is a market for high-quality packaged recordings.
I miss your recordings Matt...
Geez Fitz because you must have the same ears as God Almighty....
check out stone church, puppet house, and moe down and if you dont think they are some of the best sounding recordings then i dont know what to tell you.
I\'m not going to comment on this thread anymore. I\'m just going to get myself into trouble. If some of you are interested in what these matrices/multitracks sound like check out my mix thread,,
Geez Fitz because you must have the same ears as God Almighty....
check out stone church, puppet house, and moe down and if you dont think they are some of the best sounding recordings then i dont know what to tell you.
They sound damn good to me. Night and tight, and I like to hear the audience sounds too. If I get beligerent at a Breakfast show its nice to have it archived as well
Really all you tapers are the f*ckin\'
men! The fact that so many quality Breakfast recordings exist up on archive.org has been a pretty big factor causing me to rediscover PB after a couple years of slackin. Plus I\'m a pack rat for live shows. I know I got shows from Peck, Chris, Vallo, and some matrices/SBD stuff. I guess I prefer a real good AUD.
I have noticed that sound quality of the recorded shows has improved a good bit between 04 and by the end of 05. There\'s no one taper I prefer, all you guys do a good job, and no doubt some venues are harder to tape than others.
Props where they\'re due.