thebreakfast.info
Breakfast Babble => The Grand Scheme Of Things => Topic started by: leith on April 23, 2006, 04:20:50 pm
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wait a minute have we just agreed on something? did I just get transported to bizaro world and if so am I bizaro chris or are you bizaro leith? ;)
Just a momentary glitch in the matrix bro.
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wait a minute have we just agreed on something? did I just get transported to bizaro world and if so am I bizaro chris or are you bizaro leith? ;)
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So the equation Energy +energy=incredible show is not always correct.
of course not, as much as we like to think so not every single show is gonna be as great as say sat night in boston was, but it\'s almost definately not gonna happen if there is no crowd there, those days seem to be gone, when they played in front of a couple people and didnt\' give a ****, they\'d still play as though 400 people were there, but they\'ve been at it too long now, to look out and not see a healthy representation is gonna set the show in another direction for them, it completley and totally changes the setlist, # of people in the audience is directly related to the songs they will play
Why Thank You Chris. That actually put a spin on it I had not really thought about. I totally see these guys as music machines and am used to them just going out and kicking ass.
Your mentioning that they have been doing this awhile and they may not blow doors just for the sake of doing so to an empty room is a very valid point. Thanx!
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So the equation Energy +energy=incredible show is not always correct.
of course not, as much as we like to think so not every single show is gonna be as great as say sat night in boston was, but it\'s almost definately not gonna happen if there is no crowd there, those days seem to be gone, when they played in front of a couple people and didnt\' give a ****, they\'d still play as though 400 people were there, but they\'ve been at it too long now, to look out and not see a healthy representation is gonna set the show in another direction for them, it completley and totally changes the setlist, # of people in the audience is directly related to the songs they will play
absolutely.. and setlists definitely have an energy meter.. not to mention if theres noone there they may only play one set thats fairly long as opposed to two.
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So the equation Energy +energy=incredible show is not always correct.
of course not, as much as we like to think so not every single show is gonna be as great as say sat night in boston was, but it\'s almost definately not gonna happen if there is no crowd there, those days seem to be gone, when they played in front of a couple people and didnt\' give a ****, they\'d still play as though 400 people were there, but they\'ve been at it too long now, to look out and not see a healthy representation is gonna set the show in another direction for them, it completley and totally changes the setlist, # of people in the audience is directly related to the songs they will play
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Well I guess we can agree to disagree about the importance of a crowd to a show\'s memory.
:that:
Oh and it\'s capisce. I\'m as non italian as they come and I knew that. ;)
I\'m SSSOOOO far from Italian, but, from Dictionary.com:
1 entry found for capeesh.
Main Entry: capeesh
Part of Speech: interjection
Definition: do you understand?
Example: I will call you when dinner is ready. Capeesh?
Etymology: Italian capisce `understand\'
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Yeah well as I said before I am there mainly for the music. How many times in a show do you find me yapping w/ someone? Not many and that is how I choose to enjoy my Breakfast. Just because it is different does not mean I need pity or am missing out. I make plenty of "connections" w/ my friends b4 the show, setbreak, and late nite.
I don\'t "yap" with my friends much while the band is playing. And "the connection" I am talking about is when you are in the middle of a bunch of people you know, the band is ripping a tune to another dimension, your mind is melting, you look around and can see and feel that everyone you know feels the same way. This is what sets one show apart from another to me. AND, I never said anything about pitying you! Capeesh?
Yeah well I should hope as their main photographer they would play up for you. Good shots=Good publicity
Yes, but they also do this the entire show, as long as they have a crowd to interact with. A crowd standing there not moving= band still playing great, but not moving around with silly antics, etc, etc. A crowd going nuts over the music, dancing and flailing around with hands in the air= band going nuts with them. Energy + energy= incredible show. Capeesh?
Yeah that "connection" happens every once in awhile w/ a hi five or shared look of amazement but it is not notching the show up for me. It adds to the experience but is not a factor for me as much as the music.
Yeah well take Tempe. The crowd was all about the band and they played like crap(so they thought). The crowd was eating it up and the band was interacting w/ those up front like every other night.
What happened? The crowd was all sorts of pumped and were giving energy to the band.
So the equation Energy +energy=incredible show is not always correct.
I get the whole bonding w/ friends etc. but that happens EVERY show so how can it matter in the playing?
Well I guess we can agree to disagree about the importance of a crowd to a show\'s memory.
Oh and it\'s capisce. I\'m as non italian as they come and I knew that. ;)
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I don\'t really talk to anyone all that much during shows, but have casual interactions w/ the people i\'m around all throughout. i can give specific examples of back to back nights where 1 show was far better because of the energy of the crowd. it really matters, why\'s ron spears gonna be amped to play music for people who aren\'t really paying much attention? its just not gonna happen, that in itself will destroy a show in comparison to some of the more ser ragers. when all 4 of them are firing on all cylinders, thats when the good **** goes down, and you get that a whole lot more often when the crowd are eating up every second of it.
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i personally don\'t really interact with anyone during shows, maybe I\'m antisocial or something but i walk all around the venue taking in the whole scene. i probably only see the people i actually go to the show with maybe 3-4 times over the course of the night. Leith if you were at the show last night you would have seen what an insane crowd can evoke. after these past couple days i can imagine how beat the guys were coming into this show but i think the energy level of the crowd was through the roof and personally that collective energy brought me higher than i was going into the show. I personally feel alittle bad for you from reading this. but to each his/her own on there participation in the scene as a collective. I don\'t see the crowd as the final deciding factor of a good show but it is a big part of the sound and the collective reciprocating energy flowing through everyone in the room.
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so even if you are up font turn around everyonce and awhile and take it all in it\'s a site to be seen
Absolutely!!!!!
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I\'ve had many occasions on this last run where I was right up front literally pushed against the stage and I would still turn around to just take in the whole crowd to see a sea of people moving each individually all together, is an amazing thing to see, so even if you are up font turn around everyonce and awhile and take it all in it\'s a site to be seen
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Yeah well as I said before I am there mainly for the music. How many times in a show do you find me yapping w/ someone? Not many and that is how I choose to enjoy my Breakfast. Just because it is different does not mean I need pity or am missing out. I make plenty of "connections" w/ my friends b4 the show, setbreak, and late nite.
I don\'t "yap" with my friends much while the band is playing. And "the connection" I am talking about is when you are in the middle of a bunch of people you know, the band is ripping a tune to another dimension, your mind is melting, you look around and can see and feel that everyone you know feels the same way. This is what sets one show apart from another to me. AND, I never said anything about pitying you! Capeesh?
Yeah well I should hope as their main photographer they would play up for you. Good shots=Good publicity
Yes, but they also do this the entire show, as long as they have a crowd to interact with. A crowd standing there not moving= band still playing great, but not moving around with silly antics, etc, etc. A crowd going nuts over the music, dancing and flailing around with hands in the air= band going nuts with them. Energy + energy= incredible show. Capeesh?
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fuckin\' god, kill this thread.
Or another option is to insert the "Congratulations on your gay thread" pic.
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Hey....
Different folks like different aspects of showsIts not up to anubody else to be judgemental about what someone else likes or dislikes about a show. So....its all good. No reason to get in each others face about.
Me, I just want to know about the crowd because in the business side of it....thats what buyers rate the band by. Sure I love the music....I freaking record it, but where we take the band depends on who WANTs to book the band. And the first Question THEY have is "how are the numbers". Actually...if they are professional they don\'t ask US....they caall the last 5 places the band played. Good numbers....we get the gig.
Thank you Vic.
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Hey....
Different folks like different aspects of showsIts not up to anubody else to be judgemental about what someone else likes or dislikes about a show. So....its all good. No reason to get in each others face about.
Me, I just want to know about the crowd because in the business side of it....thats what buyers rate the band by. Sure I love the music....I freaking record it, but where we take the band depends on who WANTs to book the band. And the first Question THEY have is "how are the numbers". Actually...if they are professional they don\'t ask US....they caall the last 5 places the band played. Good numbers....we get the gig.
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I understand being totally totally involved in the music...but turn around and take in the whole experience. Your missing half of whats going on if your eyes never leave the band. Dance with your friends and family... Thats what matters in the long run, when the music stops.
You know I have actually been consideing watching from the back but for lighting purposes to get the full effect of Ellis\' work. Maybe doing that will help me gain more of an insight.
I will try but I really really find it hard to pull myself away from the band mainly because it is soo rare for me to be in front of them. I know the Winstons show for me fell short due to being pulled away from the music so much by friends. I really am not sure if I am going to change much but I am willing to give it a shot once maybe twice.
I do know that I can not stand it when a friend thinks they are engaging in good times jumping on my back when in reality they are just pissing me off.
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I understand being totally totally involved in the music...but turn around and take in the whole experience. Your missing half of whats going on if your eyes never leave the band. Dance with your friends and family... Thats what matters in the long run, when the music stops.
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don\'t be pious(sp?) or anything leith
and you started this off by saying that somw of the shows were there weren\'t good crowds are good? and then just coming down on the family thing? I just don\' get the point your trying to make
Now how am i being pious?
There is no point other than I was curious why some people view shows better or worse depending on the crowd. It baffles me that the crowd could make a difference enough for some people that it would slant their memories of a show.
As I stated before I was introduced to the band under circumstances considered a "doozie" in these parts. The band still threw down and had a large enough effect on me to move me to join PB fans.
So to me the crowd was never a factor the band was incredible and will be w/ or w/o the crowd energy.
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don\'t be pious(sp?) or anything leith
and you started this off by saying that somw of the shows were there weren\'t good crowds are good? and then just coming down on the family thing? I just don\' get the point your trying to make
Nice to see, that you\'re such a a scholar in knowing pious!!!! But....you still posess the Paul Ryan fault in "your"!!!! :lol: ;)
:rimshot:
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don\'t be pious(sp?) or anything leith
and you started this off by saying that somw of the shows were there weren\'t good crowds are good? and then just coming down on the family thing? I just don\' get the point your trying to make
Nice to see, that you\'re such a a scholar in knowing pious!!!! But....you still posess the Paul Ryan fault in "your"!!!! :lol: ;)
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and without said family, said love, and said good times, i honestly don\'t think i\'d try so hard to see the band every chance i got. i\'m sure i\'d still see them plenty, but the things surrounding this band make the whole thing better, imo.
:that: I\'ve said almost this exact thing to people outside the Breakfast scene before, I would still go but it prob wouldn\'t be as ****,
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Well sorry to say but if this band makes it to the theater stage do not expect it to be the riot it is in clubs now. It\'s just a fact you all will have to face.
You just don\'t know this family, do you? We WILL make it a riot ANYWHERE this band plays!!!!!!
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It is not so @ a Breakfast show. Get there early and you can be up front and it behooves one to act a crazy fool to fit in w/ the **** fans up front.
Well sorry to say but if this band makes it to the theater stage do not expect it to be the riot it is in clubs now. It\'s just a fact you all will have to face.
I don\'t see the "riots" stopping anytime soon, theater or not! ;)
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don\'t be pious(sp?) or anything leith
and you started this off by saying that somw of the shows were there weren\'t good crowds are good? and then just coming down on the family thing? I just don\' get the point your trying to make
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and don\'t usually bother to turn around as the band is not behind me.
Then you are missing out on "the connection" with all of :your fiends"
AND I have had Tim look me in the eye and just rip to see how fast he could get me to go.:lol:
You think they don\'t do that with the whole crowd??? Come on GUY, that IS part of the energy of the show!!! I was up front last night and Ron and Tim put on "a show" for me to photograph, involving Tim guitar spearing the front row and Tim and Ron dueling together. AWESOME shots AND awesome ENERGY that you could definately see in the crowd!!!!!
So I understand the whole interaction angle but WHY does it effect one\'s review or determine if that show was better than any other?
:idunno:
It IS all about the AWESOME playing of the band AND the connection of the band to the crowd!!!!! As a proclaimed old school Dead Head, you, more than anyone else, should understand this!!!!
Yeah well as I said before I am there mainly for the music. How many times in a show do you find me yapping w/ someone? Not many and that is how I choose to enjoy my Breakfast. Just because it is different does not mean I need pity or am missing out. I make plenty of "connections" w/ my friends b4 the show, setbreak, and late nite.
Yeah well I should hope as their main photographer they would play up for you. Good shots=Good publicity
Yeah I saw the Dead in all sorts of intimate places. Pffft.
I guess I actually just answered my own question. Thanx all.
I see it like this. The Breakfast play in bars and small clubs.
The core fanbase has seen most of the shows played and have known the guys personally for a long time. For many it is their first "local bar band",the thing is you guys got lucky on that one if more local bar bands were this good music in this country would be soooo different.
The crowd has always been a part of the PB experience and thus it is passed on as such.
With larger bands such as Phish and GD that connection was only available up front and that place needed to be "earned".
It is not so @ a Breakfast show. Get there early and you can be up front and it behooves one to act a crazy fool to fit in w/ the **** fans up front.
Well sorry to say but if this band makes it to the theater stage do not expect it to be the riot it is in clubs now. It\'s just a fact you all will have to face.
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Remember the old adage, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound? Well if the band is playing a sick show and thee\'s a crowd of two people who are talking to each other and ignoring the band, did they really play? Well of course they did, but it can\'t do all that much for their self esteem.
The crowd is very important to a great show. It has no bearing on the musical quality of the show short of how much the band and crowd reciprocate each other\'s energy. Yes the band can still rip off a sick concert, but the show as a whole could be less than stellar because the crowd is just standing around.
The crowd will always have an impact on the overall quality of a show. Just ask Ron, last night he said, "If you guys don\'t come we don\'t play." And that\'s the truth. These guys are very committed to the music as I\'m sure anybody with half a brain could tell, but even they couldn\'t keep on keepin\' on if they didn\'t have shows with crazy crowds. It\'s all about energy, the band will always atttempt to pull out their best in front of a hard-groovin\' crowd. That\'s just how it goes.
Just for a point of reference, the best shows I have ever been to? Last night at the Middle East #1, The Puppet House Theatre Run #2, and The Seventh Annual Fonghoulish Freakout #3. The crowds all had a lot to do with those shows, but the band most likely worked the hardest on the Fonghoul. But to each his own I guess.
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and don\'t usually bother to turn around as the band is not behind me.
Then you are missing out on "the connection" with all of "your friends"
AND I have had Tim look me in the eye and just rip to see how fast he could get me to go.:lol:
You think they don\'t do that with the whole crowd??? Come on GUY, that IS part of the energy of the show!!! I was up front last night and Ron and Tim put on "a show" for me to photograph, involving Tim guitar spearing the front row and Tim and Ron dueling together. AWESOME shots AND awesome ENERGY that you could definitely see in the crowd!!!!!
So I understand the whole interaction angle but WHY does it effect one\'s review or determine if that show was better than any other?
:idunno:
It IS all about the AWESOME playing of the band AND the connection of the band to the crowd!!!!! As a proclaimed old school Dead Head, you, more than anyone else, should understand this!!!!
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Crowd energy = SER good vibes in the venue... while I\'m NOT codependent, I always pick up on the crowd\'s energy - the best shows I\'ve been to are the ones where people are moving & enjoying the tunes.
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what a dumb comment leith.
the music is made by people.
the crowd is made of people.
people react to other people.
i love when theres a raging crowd. if i had seen two shows that were in every way comparable musically on disc but completely different by crowd standards (which is highly unlikely), you better believe id be more inclined to write a more in-depth review of the "raging crowd" show. doesnt mean id dis the other, but **** man how can you not be affected by the element of a greater more engaged crowd. i love people, I LOVE PEOPLE. doesnt it feel better when there are a hundred heads experiencing the same incredible music than just you standing in front of the stage?
and as far as dave\'s comment about seeing them less, pretty sure he wouldnt pay a cover at a door just to walk into a room full of his friends w/o The Breakfast playing. i have a feeling the music is still #1 on the list for all of the Breakfast-fam out there, aint nothing wrong with FEELING better about things when youre surrounded by people you really care about. what a depressing comment leith, weak sauce.
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fuckin\' god, kill this thread.
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when the crowd has a lot of energy the band plays harder which makes the crowd even more crazy, and it is fun when you are getting your grove on and being owned and you look around and every one in the club is going crazy with there crazy dance moves
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The fact that the experience of those around you during the show means nothing to you and has no effect on you makes me sad, leith. I pity you.
I find it ridiculous to gauge crowd reaction and determine if a show was hot or not. I listen to the show for that.
So the same show musically played in front of 3 sleeping people vs. 25 people at the bar not paying any attention vs. 300 people eating up every note is all the same to you. I\'m sorry man.
Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
Because I love my friends in the crowd and I like to meet the new faces that I don\'t know and see their reactions. The collective feeling amongst all of these people during the show is just as important if not more important than how the band played in determining the success of a show. Clearly this concept has passed you by and the people are not imporant to you. But you\'re thirty-something years old and you\'ve been to a million concerts. If you don\'t understand it by now, you never will. It\'s really too bad.
Codependent much? Having friends around @ a show is great but not the priority for me as it is for you all. Breakfast shows for me are a musical experience which is very rare while for you all it is mainly a social experience that you guys get alot of. So the reactions of those around you matter more.
I understand completely. too bad the band is not getting your full attention as they deserve.
The thing is I first saw this band w/ NO ONE that was going apeshit.
I was floored and moved to join PB fans.
" The collective feeling amongst all of these people during the show is just as important if not more important than how the band played in determining the success of a show"
What? That is such a slap in the face to the band. No wonder you harbor the hope they never break big.
Yeah I guess when you are just used to a bar band consisting of your friends for the main musical muse in your life, it is ez to break it down to hanging out w/ people and not the music so much.
I know when I come out to see shows, I have a blast hanging out w/ folk before the show, set break, and after the show. I interact briefly if someone is up front jamming out near me during the show but for the most part I am there to see the band and I have never once thought a show was better or worse due to the crowd in any manner.
Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
family.
love.
good times.
Yeah I get that.
So if you happen to be @ a show w/ a bunch of newbs who don\'t go ballistic w/ every note , no .info\'ers, and the band throws down harder than you can recall, the show still gets a lesser review because the crowd was not all crazy?
hmmm OK
not saying anything about a review of a show.. you asked why the crowd is important, those are my reasons. and without said family, said love, and said good times, i honestly don\'t think i\'d try so hard to see the band every chance i got. i\'m sure i\'d still see them plenty, but the things surrounding this band make the whole thing better, imo.
Wow I can understand that feeling but I mean I love you guys alot but when I fly out it is not thinking first yeah I get to see so and so.... I am stoked to see The Breakfast and hanging w/ cool cats is total gravy.
Is that understandable?
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The fact that the experience of those around you during the show means nothing to you and has no effect on you makes me sad, leith. I pity you.
I find it ridiculous to gauge crowd reaction and determine if a show was hot or not. I listen to the show for that.
So the same show musically played in front of 3 sleeping people vs. 25 people at the bar not paying any attention vs. 300 people eating up every note is all the same to you. I\'m sorry man.
Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
Because I love my friends in the crowd and I like to meet the new faces that I don\'t know and see their reactions. The collective feeling amongst all of these people during the show is just as important if not more important than how the band played in determining the success of a show. Clearly this concept has passed you by and the people are not imporant to you. But you\'re thirty-something years old and you\'ve been to a million concerts. If you don\'t understand it by now, you never will. It\'s really too bad.
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Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
family.
love.
good times.
Yeah I get that.
So if you happen to be @ a show w/ a bunch of newbs who don\'t go ballistic w/ every note , no .info\'ers, and the band throws down harder than you can recall, the show still gets a lesser review because the crowd was not all crazy?
hmmm OK
not saying anything about a review of a show.. you asked why the crowd is important, those are my reasons. and without said family, said love, and said good times, i honestly don\'t think i\'d try so hard to see the band every chance i got. i\'m sure i\'d still see them plenty, but the things surrounding this band make the whole thing better, imo.
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Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
family.
love.
good times.
Yeah I get that.
So if you happen to be @ a show w/ a bunch of newbs who don\'t go ballistic w/ every note , no .info\'ers, and the band throws down harder than you can recall, the show still gets a lesser review because the crowd was not all crazy?
hmmm OK
Wonder what reviews will be like if the band actually starts playing places where the Bfast Family contingent is vastly outnumbered by normal fans.
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Just why is the crowd so important to some Breakfast fans?
family.
love.
good times.
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I guess I am just selfish in that I barely socialize while the band is playing and don\'t usually bother to turn around as the band is not behind me.
I just get my space in front of Jordan and proceed w/ the flailing I call dancing.
I know the faster they play the faster I dance AND I have had Tim look me in the eye and just rip to see how fast he could get me to go.:lol:
So I understand the whole interaction angle but WHY does it effect one\'s review or determine if that show was better than any other?
:idunno:
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the crowd is a big factor.
its possible to play a great show in front of a shitty crowd.
it is also possible to play like **** in front of a great crowd.
But IN GENERAL great shows are much more likely to happen in front of great crowds.
The band thrives on it. The audience thrives on that. And it just multiplies.
If you upfront at shows raging I don\'t know how you could not see it happening.
The crowd is a huge factor.
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My observation is that the band feeds off the energy of the crowd. They play a killer show no matter what...but maybe what makes the really **** special shows is the amount of excitement the band gets from the audience. Thats just what i perceive when timmy or ron look at the people going crazy and get big smiles on their faces and get excited themselves.
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like you said, the main effects of a raging crowd are pretty much the reciprocation of energy back to the band. when there are a bunch of people gettin down, it adds to the total energy of the show, including the energy put out by the musicians. but a sick show is independent of a raging crowd, the enthusiasm of the fans just helps. i mean, imagine if no one started jumping around during taboo or not taboot? i think it would be awkward
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I have said before I could care less what the crowd is doing as I am up front and there for the music first and foremost and to get my dance on.
I find it ridiculous to gauge crowd reaction and determine if a show was hot or not.
I usually listen to a show to determine that.
I mean if the crowd is not into a show I can understand a band may play @ a lesser level, if that band sucked!
A band like The Breakfast does not need the help of the crowd to get casual fans into their show.
Yeah I can see how the energy can help amplify the band\'s feelings of
euphoria from playing and thus give the appearance of something significant happening, but I don\'t see how if that energy is absent yet the music is still raging how a casual fan would still not be enthralled.
I understand sometimes a rowdy crowd is fun, sometimes it can get nasty depending on venue size, rudeness, alcohol etc.
It seems to me from reading post-show posts if the crowd was not jumping up and down from start to finish the show recieves poorer reviews.
I listen to some of these shows and wonder just what the hell the posters were thinking.