thebreakfast.info
General Discussions => Spunk => Topic started by: leith on November 04, 2005, 04:22:27 pm
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The bottom is that even a drug-infested Trey playing pop songs is still better than 90% of the music out.
The music on the new album has some great moments but trey is definitely lyrically and vocally challanged.
The album could use some weirdin\' up from Gordon, some beautiful lyrics from Marshall a jazzed infused backbeat and maybe some tasty keys.
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dude trey fell off in a major way. and he has done nothing to redeem himself yet .
There is really no denying this fact.
Seeing Phish from 92 on you should have been able to see this.
I clearly saw and acknowledged it as did every other person I attended phish shows with most of whom had seen every single show from 94 on.
Not sure how you missed it.
Maybe your just one of those "glass is half full" type of guys.
I find it funny that you\'re offering opinions of Trey\'s demise from people "whom had seen every single show from \'94 on". First of all, I think that\'s a load of crap especially if they were your age, but if it were true, why would these people continue to go to every show if they felt Trey was getting worse and worse.
I saw Phish and solo Trey 100+ times from \'95 on. The only way I was ever disappointed was if I was comparing that show to other Phish/Trey shows. But, I was always able to put it in perspective and think to myself that it was probably the best live music played anywhere that night. Even in his "pop" music, I can hear that unique Trey guitar sound and it puts a smile on my face.
I am extremely selfishly disappointed that Phish is not around anymore and I wish that Trey were writing more David Bowies rather than Shine, but I guess that\'s the curve of the musician. I think you would agree that most jambands write their classic songs and have their epic shows in the earlier stages of their careers. When you\'re young and inexperienced as a "songwriter", you tend to be a little bit more daring and just rip it up (a la early Phish YEM, Antelope, Possum, Golgi, etc) and as you "mature" as a songwriter, you start writing songs that may be more sophisticated musically but generally don\'t please the crowds as much.
The bottom line is that even a drug-infested Trey playing pop songs is still better than 90% of the music out. And, you can bad mouth him as much as you want, if you saw him on the street, you\'d probably wet your pants.
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I don\'t like most of the new Trey material anywhere near as much Phish material. In fact, the vast majority of the new material does nothing for me. But I\'m mad about it and saying Trey is this and that and spreading the ten millionth stupid internet Trey rumour around.
someone posted on this board that Trey was stumbling around the streets of NYC loaded and getting rides home from some rich kid in his lexus.
That is some retarded 5th grade internet bs, that\'s for sure. Stuff like that is why I never go on any other message boards. Even if it were true, so what? I can\'t believe that post on a Breakfast internet message board could actually warrant any opinion-forming consideration. My god the internet is stupid.
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it was only like a month ago that someone posted on this board that Trey was stumbling around the streets of NYC loaded and getting rides home from some rich kid in his lexus.
i realize that this board is not a "reliable source" and I honestly could care less what Trey\'s consumption problems are, my point is merely that just because he came out with an album that\'s not a mess (not withstanding the fact that it\'s pumped full of shallow pop songs) doesn\'t mean that he\'s sober. Lets face it the music business is loaded with stories about successful artist, producing successful neat albums while being a complete mess.
I can\'t speak for anyone else, but I know that I got into phish because they were doing something that nobody else was really doing and they were doing it well. Now Trey is making pop albums, and honestly, if I\'m in the mood for pop, I\'m gonna turn on Dave or any of the other 50 million pop bands out there.
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It always amuses me how so many people who had the best times of their life going to see Phish now have nothing to offer but bitterness and anger and uninformed opinions about what Trey is doing now.
Deep down inside, these people all loved Phish, whether they realize it or not. Is it really possible for anyone to become so upset that "Shine" isn\'t as complex as "Stash"? No. What we have here is a lot of misdirected anger that Phish doesn\'t exist anymore. Lots of people had the best musical experience of their lives taken away from them. Some fans have dealt with this well, often by simply finding other musical interests and experiences to persue. Other fans not so well, often by misdirecting their sadness as anger towards the band leader, Trey Anastasio. These people are almost always fans who really got on board during the hiatus and had just 1.5 years to scramble to see a few shows through ticket shortages and huge crowds and always wish that they could have been a full-blown tourhead in 97 or earlier. Trey takes a ton of undue flak, but that comes with the territory of being the band leader. The latest from Page, Mike, and Fishman are a far cry from Phish material also, but you don\'t hear anyone complaining about that. Mike\'s latest release contains a cover of Aerosmith\'s "Sweet Emotion." Everyone\'s indifferent to this. If Trey had done this on his new album, that would be all that the trendy Trey trashtalkers needed to go off all over again.
If you really think that Trey Anastasio sucks, the man who gave you the best musical experiences of your life, you need to take a huge step back and reevaluate yourself and where your feelings are coming from. I\'ll give you a hint: you don\'t hate him this much because his solo albums aren\'t as complex as Rift or because he may have done some drugs like anyone else. You just miss Phish and wish you got more of it. It\'s that simple. To get over your misplaced anger, find some other music that moves you and dig out some photographs of you and your friends at your favorite Phish show.
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I love the way people say "so and so\'s music went to ****"....Thats **** gratitude for ya....
The day people start saying that Timmy\'s music is going to **** because he is doing something new or something different, is the day I start handing out beatdowns...
Agreed!!
The vibe I got from the whole thing and what I\'ve heard from others is that it was more becasue Trey wanted to do what he wanted to do, not so much cause of the drugs. I tseemed liek these rumors got more and more outragous as time went on
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the hopes always there. but it\'s been a real disapointing run the last 5 years. but hey you never know. he could make a come back. crazier things have happened. Its obviously still in him to be great cause he has show he can be great but not in a very long time
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to me the bright side of the whole trey issue is being thankful that he hasn\'t died yet...not the music he is putting out thats for damn sure.
Well now see that is at least a decent sentiment. It shows that though dissapointed in him you still harbor hope he will again write/play music that you will enjoy. It\'s a start.
maybe he just snapped out of it and is back on track again but what i saw this summer the downward spiral is just continuing
Some of that was his band being new and not knowing the material. They are alot better now though still no TAB. He has backup singers now and it is pretty rockin\' stuff. Yeah some of the slower poppy stuff gets a tad much but I take the bad w/ the good. right now I hear more good than bad.
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to me the bright side of the whole trey issue is being thankful that he hasn\'t died yet...not the music he is putting out thats for damn sure.
maybe he just snapped out of it and is back on track again but what i saw this summer the downward spiral is just continuing
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MY point is he does not seem to be abusing drugs anymore. His playing is clear and concise. It is uplifting once again and his music shows it. I am just tired of people claiming he is all drugged out and making crappy music when it is just not true. Yeah maybe the music is crappy to some but it is not due to crappy playing and drug use. It\'s just not their cup of tea anymore. Some artists do that. Take the complaints about Clapton on this very board. He is as Sober as they come and making music which reflects his life as it is now. He is not playing or writing kick ass rock and roll because he is old and plays the blues only it seems now. So I don\'t listen to his recent stuff and listen to what I do like of his.
Trey is doing somewhat the same thing. I am not saying he\'s not partying like a rockstar anymore but he IS focused on his music again. Can\'t people be happy with that?
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i think that trey, as a musician, doesn\'t have that "something" that he had when phish were fresh on the scene. as a drug addict, well i hope he can get his act together. just because he is a father and a husband doesn\'t mean he\'s a good father or husband. i\'m not saying he isn\'t but you can\'t use that as an argument for him having his **** together. his using/sobriety is none of my business unless he asks me for help in which case i will do anything to help him stay sober, but if that is not the case, then it is none of my business and i don\'t care to make it such. if his playing suffers because of his habit, then i don\'t have to listen to his music. plain and simple. the day someone puts a gun to my head and says "YOU MUST LISTEN TO TREY" is the day that i\'ll be able to justifiably complain about the state of his music. this thread is thus unnecessary (thats me talking as a person with an opinion, not a moderator). this is just my take, you\'re free to agree or disagree.
edit: by the same token, one should not try to justify his drug habit, and leith, no offense whatsoever, i love you, but i feel like you are trying to rationalize his drug use. and i can understand that. as someone who used drugs for a long time, i understand how we spin things, and i only suggest that maybe you\'re vicariously justifying your own drug use here. i am in no way condemning the use of drugs, like you said, to each his own, and i pass no judgement on anyone\'s life decisions, but i just invite you to maybe take a look at it from this perspective. i may be entirely offbase, but its just the reaction i had in reading this. i love every single one of you unconditionally and in no way am i trying to judge anyone\'s lifestyle. just wanna make that clear.
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I guess we should be patting him on the back for getting hooked on oc\'s, **** up phish and putting out shitty solo music? Way to go trey! Your really showing a lot of growth!
Get real.
realized he did not want to be like Jerry Idolized and DEAD!
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In the past I read these interviews with Trey where he was talking about this new direction that he wanted to take, this new sound that he wanted to find. Then I started to hear the music. He went from playing these ultra-complex, multi part, finger twisting songs with wack job crazy lyrics from another planet that blew your mind, to simple strummers with MEH lyrics. I could care less whether drugs or bordem led to the change, all I know is that now I\'m bored with the end product.
and that is cool. One does not have to listen to EVERYTHING an artist does.
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In the past I read these interviews with Trey where he was talking about this new direction that he wanted to take, this new sound that he wanted to find. Then I started to hear the music. He went from playing these ultra-complex, multi part, finger twisting songs with wack job crazy lyrics from another planet that blew your mind, to simple strummers with MEH lyrics. I could care less whether drugs or bordem led to the change, all I know is that now I\'m bored with the end product.
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dude trey fell off in a major way. and he has done nothing to redeem himself yet .
There is really no denying this fact.
Seeing Phish from 92 on you should have been able to see this.
I clearly saw and acknowledged it as did every other person I attended phish shows with most of whom had seen every single show from 94 on.
Not sure how you missed it.
Maybe your just one of those "glass is half full" type of guys.
Yeah So what is your point really? I continued to go just like I went to GD shows until the end. Yeah so he was not as good as he was. Due to lack of focus, not practicing, not caring, wanting to give the other guys in the band more room so he played less? All of these reasons are just as valid as anyone else\'s rants abt his drug use. My point is Phish is done and to many they were done even B4 Trey saw it. So why can you and others move on like he has?
Oh and as far as falling off. You have not heard him live lately huh? Because I have and IN MY NOT SO HUMBLE OPINION say Trey knows he was slippin\' and HAS been practicin\' and ANYONE who actually was at WSP Vegoose will tell you he RIPPED **** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when he guested and his Latenite show was awesome. Other than the acoustic set screwups in his Vegoose set it also TORE **** UP!!!!
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dude trey fell off in a major way. and he has done nothing to redeem himself yet .
There is really no denying this fact.
Seeing Phish from 92 on you should have been able to see this.
I clearly saw and acknowledged it as did every other person I attended phish shows with most of whom had seen every single show from 94 on.
Not sure how you missed it.
Maybe your just one of those "glass is half full" type of guys.
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lol
your right, i say trey sucks because i wish he was playing music i could enjoy as much as phish. trey is a great guitarist so relax everyone, organicnugz! since i can make opinions about music i think that makes me a critic and this forum is my platform.
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Leith how many phish shows did you see?
Well I actually am not sure but I believe from \'92 to the end I saw near 70 some shows. What does that have to do w/ anything?
boooo! We are all allowed to have our own opinions and say what we truly think. If we think Trey is a junkie...we think he is a junkie. Who is to say what we are allowed to think or say. Not me and not you...so let music be music and let people critique the music or musicians that they dont dig...hasnt it always been that way?
Good argument topic though.
*SallyAlli*
NO my point is that these people are holding things against him that are in the past. These people are still wishing Phish was around and it just is not going to happen. These people do not want to see Trey do anything but play w/ Phish they could care less about his personal growth. If they don\'t like his music fine. Why pick @ his choice? find someone else to listen to. That\'s all.
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Leith how many phish shows did you see?
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boooo! We are all allowed to have our own opinions and say what we truly think. If we think Trey is a junkie...we think he is a junkie. Who is to say what we are allowed to think or say. Not me and not you...so let music be music and let people critique the music or musicians that they dont dig...hasnt it always been that way?
Good argument topic though.
*SallyAlli*
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I guess we should be patting him on the back for getting hooked on oc\'s, **** up phish and putting out shitty solo music? Way to go trey! Your really showing a lot of growth!
Get real.
Yeah @ the root of that statement is he **** up Phish. Dude get over it! It was not just Trey that was slippin\' The BAND AS A WHOLE WAS NOT THE SAME POST HIATUS Deal with it. You know it\'s true. Trey just had the balls to stop it. He saw people like you more and more @ shows and realized he did not want to be like Jerry Idolized and DEAD!
So you don\'t like his solo stuff? Fine don\'t buy it or a ticket.
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I guess we should be patting him on the back for getting hooked on oc\'s, **** up phish and putting out shitty solo music? Way to go trey! Your really showing a lot of growth!
Get real.
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Vegas 04....Trey was definitely on something or somethings, and some thought it was crap....Me...personally, I loved the shows....
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I sampled his new album on iTunes the other day, didn\'t buy it. I\'m just not interested in Trey-pop. But I suppose I should give it a more complete listen before passing judgement. I know a few people on .info have raved about it.
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At the height of Clapton\'s darkest heroin addictions he produced what could possibly be considered a masterpiece of modern rock.
I don\'t know what kinda **** deadheads were talking about when Jer was getting really sloppy onstage because the worldwide web along with it\'s billion "experts on everything" didn\'t really exist outside of gov\'t and academic circles @ the time.
So we need the input of some of the more "seasoned".info\'ers... what was the word around the campfire about Jer back in the day?
I remember when i was just getting into GD. I would always run into those that would just talk **** about Jerry being a junkie and he was soo much better in the 70\'s.
I even remember myself yelling @ Jerry to "wake the **** up and read your teleprompter damn it!" in L.A. Winter \'94. It was sad to see him resting his chin on his mic and the rest of the band just trying to make it through. Having Jerry just not come out for awhile into Space while the rest of the band played and looked @ each other like "Is he coming Out?" I still went even when Jerry was not up to par but that was just because you just never knew when he would snap out of it and just lay down the sweetest licks you ever heard. Unfortunately Jerry ran out of time. Trey has not.
So you see I can understand people being upset w/ Trey while he was playing poorly due to drugs but he is not doing so now(Or @ least he\'s been practicing and got the drugs under control). So I am interested in seeing where he goes from here.
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they\'re still makin\' money off that fat bastards talent
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The Grateful Dead = The Other Jer Band
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At the height of Clapton\'s darkest heroin addictions he produced what could possibly be considered a masterpiece of modern rock.
I don\'t know what kinda **** deadheads were talking about when Jer was getting really sloppy onstage because the worldwide web along with it\'s billion "experts on everything" didn\'t really exist outside of gov\'t and academic circles @ the time.
So we need the input of some of the more "seasoned".info\'ers... what was the word around the campfire about Jer back in the day?
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your right, trey WAS an awsome guitarist and phish IS dead. i dont think it\'s COOL to bad mouth trey or his bad but since i am a "music critic" i can say in my opinion only that his talent is wasted, in my opinion. he could be doing so much more. i think. i like the fact that he\'s doing something different. i\'m not a musician so i don\'t know alot about the complexity of his guitar work i only know what i hear. i like his solo acoustic more than anything, i think it is powerful stuff.
What the hell is a music critic? Generally it\'s someone who thinks they know what good music is, has no idea what it takes, and lacks the insight to make that determination in the first place...just because YOU like or don\'t like something doesn\'t necessarily give you a platform from which to criticize an artist.
Being in a band is like any relationship; it takes work, commitment, commitment, compromise...most people lack the maturity to understand this. When the relationship suffers, the music suffers...Trey wasn\'t feeling Phish anymore. I think it\'s the ridiculous nature of fans and the pressure they put on the band to be what they want it to be is what kills the creative energies of a band. Whether I like the decision Phish (Trey) has made, or not is really irrelevant to me. I commend him for taking a chance to start over...solo projects, Oysterhead, DM & Friends, his new Band. I saw Trey and Gov\'t Mule over the summer and they were pretty amazing. He\'s an incredibily talented guitarist no matter what situation you put him in...The other members of Phish should have no problem doing there own thing and creating new bands and sounds; each is talented in his own right.
I know it\'s hard for some "phans," letting go that is, as Phish is one of those bands that\'s just greater than the sum of it\'s parts. ANd who knows they may get back together again.
Look at the Grateful Dead...what is it without Jerry? Many people went out to see JGB, Jerry was an amazing guitarist...he played Bluegrass with David Grisman; an album with Howard Wales; Mickey Hart has his own band as does Bob Weir and Phil Lesh...you have to evaluate and consider what they do in their own right and not compare it to the band that made them all famous...doesn\'t mean they are wasting their talent. That\'s just naive...imo.
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what folks need to realize is trey needs to do stuff to make him happy.
after so many years under a microscope,being ripped ot shreads piece by piece,its trey day.
good for him..
im dont really dig the new album too much,but its growin on me a bit..
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well said, i like timmy to much to bad mouth him or his music. he\'s a genius no matter what............the end.
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I am not really a violent person and to each his/her own is fair indeed...
but once people start trashing timmy because his music has "gone downhill" or because he drinks fruity wine...I will rethink my passifistic stance....
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it doesn\'t matter, say if i like soulfly and you like cher, obviously you think cher\'s music is good and you listen to it for a reason i prefer a certain type of music and you perfer a type. thats what makes individuals individuals. beat downs are welcome.....
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Trey is doing what all musicians and artists do....Growing and exploring....
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OH and he is a Father and Husband. I do not see how his talent is being wasted in ANY WAY.
I wonder how far down the priority list one must scroll before Family and husband appears?
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see, if that was the case with tim i would say the same ****. who cares. Tim now is what trey was. better.
so you think trey is better or worse.
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I love the way people say "so and so\'s music went to ****"....Thats **** gratitude for ya....
The day people start saying that Timmy\'s music is going to **** because he is doing something new or something different, is the day I start handing out beatdowns...
Man I love you Steve. I was actually just thinking that after my last post. What would folk here do should Timmy decide to so something different(God Forbid, fingers crossed and all that) in 20 years. Good to see you would still have his back. Good Man.
your right, trey WAS an awsome guitarist and phish IS dead. i dont think it\'s COOL to bad mouth trey or his bad but since i am a "music critic" i can say in my opinion only that his talent is wasted, in my opinion. he could be doing so much more. i think. i like the fact that he\'s doing something different. i\'m not a musician so i don\'t know alot about the complexity of his guitar work i only know what i hear. i like his solo acoustic more than anything, i think it is powerful stuff.
How could he be doing so much more? He is writing new songs, putting new twists on old songs, touring w/ a new band (no ez feat) and in the meantime playing DJ on the radio OH and he is a Father and Husband. I do not see how his talent is being wasted in ANY WAY. You have no argument there. Nope none.
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your right, trey WAS an awsome guitarist and phish IS dead. i dont think it\'s COOL to bad mouth trey or his bad but since i am a "music critic" i can say in my opinion only that his talent is wasted, in my opinion. he could be doing so much more. i think. i like the fact that he\'s doing something different. i\'m not a musician so i don\'t know alot about the complexity of his guitar work i only know what i hear. i like his solo acoustic more than anything, i think it is powerful stuff.
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I love the way people say "so and so\'s music went to ****"....Thats **** gratitude for ya....
The day people start saying that Timmy\'s music is going to **** because he is doing something new or something different, is the day I start handing out beatdowns...
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**** that, his music went to **** just likes him. i heard he booted gorden from a show. maybe he should join forces with eric clapton that seems like more of his style now. boooo to trey and boooo to his music, imo. why are you so defensive and why did you bring this up.
Because I\'m sick of people that can not let a man grow on his own. Who think they have every reason to dictate what a man should play just because they bought a ticket. I\'m tired of people that just **** about him because it\'s cool to do so. I am sick of all the people that think they are better than Trey much less anyone else. If you don\'t like his new music do not listen to it and shut the **** up. Those that are willing to give the man a chance would like to do so w/o a bunch of whiny **** babies spouting the same **** over and over.
Phish is dead DEAL!!!!!!
As far as hearing Trey booted Gordon from a show. You only heard that it is hearsay and most likely bullshit they were friends ,are friends and will probably die as friends. Just because Trey wanted to play w/ some other people is not a BAD thing.
Answer your question?
<<< speechless,but decided to bite tongue and remain nice...
Thanx Freddie way to show some growth. Good to see.
if i was trey,i wouldve been found stiff as a board/blue a long long time ago..
That\'s what I\'m thinking. I mean I can handle alot of drugs but damn!
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**** that, his music went to **** just likes him. i heard he booted gorden from a show. maybe he should join forces with eric clapton that seems like more of his style now. boooo to trey and boooo to his music, imo. why are you so defensive and why did you bring this up.
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<<< speechless,but decided to bite tongue and remain nice...
Thanx Freddie way to show some growth. Good to see.
if i was trey,i wouldve been found stiff as a board/blue a long long time ago..
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<<< speechless,but decided to bite tongue and remain nice...
Thanx Freddie way to show some growth. Good to see.
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<<< speechless,but decided to bite tongue and remain nice...
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Could you keep your **** together as well as he has? I DOUBT IT!!
It amazes me that with all the music he puts out and plays, people STILL have to talk **** about his drug use. It contributed to a decline in his playing for awhile but hell what musician that got "hooked" on anything didn\'t suffer? He was in the midst of being a part of something he felt had gotten out of control and no longer connected with as much in Phish. No wonder his drug use skyrocketed and his playing suffered.
He has obviously been practicing and preparing for a change in musical styles. He is happy and playing well. I wish people would just give him a break.
Sheesh not even Jerry got this much **** and Deadheads could be real **** when Jer was "off".