thebreakfast.info
General Discussions => Spunk => Topic started by: leith on March 22, 2010, 04:20:51 pm
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None of us even know what the heck the healthcare bill is, anyway!
The people against it don\'t even know what it is.
The people who voted for it don\'t even know what it is.
A few changes will be made.
This is something that will be put together along the way, to see what is proper and what works.
What is in the passed printed document is open for changes.
This is just a stepping stone to maybe lead to a better way of doing things.
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hmmm... let me think about this..
people who got free **** in the past..
will continue to get free **** in the future...
I will continue to pay for it.
Whats changed exactly?
Seriously though.. If this means that many people who deservedly should have Health Care will and if lives may be save as a result.. I\'m ok.
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A Government of the people, by the people, for the people...
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Skye I work in IT.
I noticed that you completely ignored my point about living off the government teat. You throw some emotional argument about your husband being a cop. So what. lots of people are cops. Am I supposed to bow down and lick his balls because he decided it was a good career choice ? My dad is / was a cop (fed) and so was my grand father.
I have to pay for the police, teachers, fire dept, libraries, government workers etc etc etc etc etc. I use little or non of the services that they provide. It is called living in a community / society. I know it is hard to understand for some but it is what it is. You keep talking about lazy Americans. Can you give me an example of lazy Americans ? and how much of the percentage of the uninsured do you really think they make up ?
I wonder if you really understand the BS that goes on in the INS field. For example people who have really good policies that they have had for years, they move, the INS company uses change of address to cancel the policy so they can jack the rates. People who find out they have cancer, only to be told that when they went to have shoulder surgery 2 months prior the doctor should have discovered it - Pre existing illness policy cancelled. These are not lazy people, they are people how have INS who get ****. INS companies are not in business to help people, they are in business to maximize profits.
You mention you have gone to the doctor 8 times recently. Do you really feel comfortable saying that they haven\'t opened a file on you to figure out how to deny your claims or looking for any discrepancies they can use to invalidate your policy ? Would it surprise you to find out this is standard operating procedure in most INS companies ?
I assume that you know that the majority of bankruptcies in the USA are due to medical expenses. Not folks who don\'t have INS but folks who do who find out that it doesn\'t cover much of anything.
I think you would be surprised what isn\'t and as covered by your great policy. I would bet there are caps on what is covered, how much, yearly out put etc etc.
My INS policy alone has gone up over %40 in the past few years. And I have it through work. It is the single most expensive thing that MOST people have to pay for if their lucky enough to have a boss who gives them benefits. Good forbid you try to buy it on your own.
Not only is it a sham of an industry but it is killing our economy.
It is also fairly funny that every industrialized society has universal health coverage except us. All of them have some form or another.
I really don\'t think you are really looking at the big picture. And for full disclosure I also in a round about way get tax payer $$ but I am not the one arguing against healthcare for all. If you lost your job and weren\'t married i woudl want you to be able to go and get checked out. Same for your husband or anyone else. Do we really want a bunch of people wandering the streets with illness and feelings of helplessness with no where to turn ?
Perhaps if we stopped spending $$ on tons of silly things like the war on terror, drugs, etc etc people wouldn\'t be more willing to do it. You know 1 year of Iraq was enough to insure every american for like 10 years. think about that for a moment.
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This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Dept of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satelites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Dept of Agriculture inspected food and taking the medications which have been determined safe by the FDA.
At the appropriate time, as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my NHTSA-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportaion, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the EPA, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at Public School.
After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home via the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absense because of the State and Local codes and Fire Marshall\'s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it\'s valubles thanks to the local police department.
I then log on to the internet which was develeoped by defense advanced research projects administration and go on to read about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government cant do anything right.
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Once again I\'ll break a promise to myself and dive in here.
Maybe someone already mentioned this, but damned if I\'m reading all this.
This health care really benefits the self employed/small business owner. Paying for this stuff while starting a business is a huge obstacle. Imagine the next Bill Gates wasting his talent because he needs to stay in his crappy corporate job so his kids have health care. This could be great for our economy. It\'s worth the risk on that alone.
I say this as someone formerly self employed, but also as someone who now has one of those "magic" health plans.
It doesn\'t bother me to pay for this. Aforementioned economic benefits aside, it\'s just the right thing to do.
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Exactly. you don\'t know the first thing about me. can dish it? but can\'t take it? i see.
I am sure you work really hard sitting at a desk. I have no doubt. And i love how you have to put in my "narc" husband. Mmmkay. You really have just made it clear that you have issues more with my husband\'s line of work than the fact we have "cadilliac" insurance. And I was the one being called bratty and ignorant? Okay then.
I\'ve been nothing but respectful with my arguments on this matter. But you talk like your husband is a saint and the only person that works hard or has a good job. Great... he\'s keeping our streets safe. That job is no more important TO ME then any other job out there, from bank tellers to computer engineers. They all make my world go round and round.
Yeah, I got a great desk job... then I have another job working on my feet... big freakin deal.
But you can\'t seem to connect the dots. The only reason why you have Cadillac insurance isn\'t because yer poppy wears a cape to work. It\'s because OUR government negotiated that insurance coverage by essentially being a large pool with great negotiating power, paid for by OUR tax dollars.
My point in this whole healthcare debate is that I\'d prefer to take the money I pay my insurance company (a FOR PROFIT organization), and give it to my government (a non profit organization) that can use it for my healthcare in a non profit kind of way.
In the end I won\'t be looked at as a "for profit" mathematical formula that needs to have a positive bottom line.
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I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing: no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox". I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes. Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that? Pretty redic. And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now. Lot of things are squished into that fine print. .
You are already subsidizing poor people via OUTRAGOUS healthcare cost. A hospital bandaid cost $15 because it\'s (product cost + delivery charge + liability to cover the 10% that can\'t pay for it).
The tanning tax could not be high enough. It should be 100%. They should be call cancer beds, and getting in one should involve forfeiting your right to ever get treated for skin cancer.
Why should it be 100%?? We live in america. if someone wants to give themselves skin cancer cause they like to be artificially orange, then let them. Its america. Freedom.
I don\'t work hard? I don\'t have a good job? You don\'t know the first **** thing about me, so don\'t assume I don\'t have a damn good job and I won\'t assume anything about you or your NARC husband.
Exactly. you don\'t know the first thing about me. can dish it? but can\'t take it? i see.
I am sure you work really hard sitting at a desk. I have no doubt. And i love how you have to put in my "narc" husband. Mmmkay. You really have just made it clear that you have issues more with my husband\'s line of work than the fact we have "cadilliac" insurance. And I was the one being called bratty and ignorant? Okay then.
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I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing: no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox". I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes. Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that? Pretty redic. And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now. Lot of things are squished into that fine print. .
You are already subsidizing poor people via OUTRAGOUS healthcare cost. A hospital bandaid cost $15 because it\'s (product cost + delivery charge + liability to cover the 10% that can\'t pay for it).
The tanning tax could not be high enough. It should be 100%. They should be call cancer beds, and getting in one should involve forfeiting your right to ever get treated for skin cancer.
My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job. Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault. Its the insurance\'s fault. Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc. Blame them. Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class. Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation..
I don\'t work hard? I don\'t have a good job? You don\'t know the first **** thing about me, so don\'t assume I don\'t have a damn good job and I won\'t assume anything about you or your NARC husband.
And finally, are we really going to help the sick? I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care? I don\'t think so. Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country. Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance. But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night. If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away. If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away. I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.
Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for. Greedy individuals who want more. I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick. It never does.
Not with selfish people walking around saying "I got mine, **** all y\'all" we\'ll never fix the system.
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. It\'s the governments job to look after it\'s people.
Show me where it says this in the U.S. Constitution. You can\'t because it\'s not in there. Why should I pay for health care for some loser? If they can\'t make it on their own then let them go the way extinct animals who couldn\'t make it went. I\'m sick of paying for you losers.
From the U.S. Constitution:
?Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States ? .?
If a socialized Federal military is OK, then socialized health passes muster as well.
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I don\'t have healthcare because of the cost and I dare
you to tell me I don\'t work my ass off. I am stoked I will finally be able to find some
kind of affordable healthcare that is not cost prohibitive due to my pre existing conditions.
like my vertigo.
leith, i would never dare say you don\'t work hard. you\'re in another continent right now ;) I completely understand. I did not have healthcare for the majority of the last decade because of the cost myself. And I paid out of pocket many times. Been there, done that.. I am very lucky right now to be in a different circumstance. Like i said earlier, not against healthcare reform, we need to do something about the entire industry...not just insurance. doctors. pharms, etc. i am against universal healthcare and this bill.
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. It\'s the governments job to look after it\'s people.
Show me where it says this in the U.S. Constitution. You can\'t because it\'s not in there. Why should I pay for health care for some loser? If they can\'t make it on their own then let them go the way extinct animals who couldn\'t make it went. I\'m sick of paying for you losers.
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Sorry Tray but you and hubby are a part of the privileged few that
have the money to have the judgemental view common to the naysayers
of this new system. Just because u have the wherewithal to have made
something of yourself does not mean those that don\'t have what you have are
shiftless layabouts.
I don\'t have healthcare because of the cost and I dare
you to tell me I don\'t work my ass off. I am stoked I will finally be able to find some
kind of affordable healthcare that is not cost prohibitive due to my pre existing conditions.
like my vertigo.
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You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance. Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.
Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.
I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing: no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox". I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes. Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that? Pretty redic. And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now. Lot of things are squished into that fine print.
Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines. So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years. i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400. I\'ve been on both sides of this coin. Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout. Just the way i am. Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.
My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job. Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault. Its the insurance\'s fault. Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc. Blame them. Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class. Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.
And finally, are we really going to help the sick? I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care? I don\'t think so. Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country. Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance. But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night. If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away. If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away. I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.
Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for. Greedy individuals who want more. I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick. It never does.
I am not in favor of this bill, but I will give an example where this will help "me"...
1. I was laid off in February and my family has been on Cobra for health insurance since.
2. That Cobra will run out in 15 months if I don\'t find a job and unfortunately, since I receive the max in unemployment, I am not eligible for most state aid, including medicaid.
3. I cannot afford to buy medical coverage for my family at the cost it is now and it is my understanding that healthcare would either be provided by the state or at a discounted rate that I can afford.
There are free-loaders that haven\'t paid into the system that will benefit from this bill, but there are also hard working citizens that have paid into the system since they were 16 that will also benefit from it... My thought is that not many people have read the 1000+ page bill (including most of the people that voted on it); I think that they really should have given people time to digest the plan before they pushed it through, but I think that there is some good here...
Good example, yoda. you have a point. there are good things. i think increased benefits for cobra programs and hard working citizens who lost their jobs is a plus. another good example of people that will actually get help. now if you are in college til 26, you can stay on your parent\'s insurance. something i would have benefited from. instead, i was cut off at like 21 because i was part time not full time.
But as you said, what upsets me, i think that the majority of this bill will help the freeloaders who haven\'t paid in. there are its good points, yes. but i really feel this bill as a whole needed more time to be rewritten, reexamined, rethought out before it just got hastily pushed through. i am not against ever having healthcare reform. I am against universal healthcare. i am against this bill and the way they are going about it. i do believe we need to reform the whole doctor>insurance>pharmaceutical game. I worked for pharmacies for about 8 years, 2 with cvs and walgreens for 6 years, part of it at the district office. and i know the absurd mark ups. We need to reform at all levels. But we need to do it the right and smart way. Insurance is a small part of it. Doctors over billing is also a huge part of the game.
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You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance. Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.
Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.
I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing: no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox". I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes. Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that? Pretty redic. And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now. Lot of things are squished into that fine print.
Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines. So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years. i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400. I\'ve been on both sides of this coin. Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout. Just the way i am. Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.
My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job. Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault. Its the insurance\'s fault. Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc. Blame them. Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class. Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.
And finally, are we really going to help the sick? I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care? I don\'t think so. Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country. Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance. But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night. If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away. If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away. I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.
Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for. Greedy individuals who want more. I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick. It never does.
I am not in favor of this bill, but I will give an example where this will help "me"...
1. I was laid off in February and my family has been on Cobra for health insurance since.
2. That Cobra will run out in 15 months if I don\'t find a job and unfortunately, since I receive the max in unemployment, I am not eligible for most state aid, including medicaid.
3. I cannot afford to buy medical coverage for my family at the cost it is now and it is my understanding that healthcare would either be provided by the state or at a discounted rate that I can afford.
There are free-loaders that haven\'t paid into the system that will benefit from this bill, but there are also hard working citizens that have paid into the system since they were 16 that will also benefit from it... My thought is that not many people have read the 1000+ page bill (including most of the people that voted on it); I think that they really should have given people time to digest the plan before they pushed it through, but I think that there is some good here...
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You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance. Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.
Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.
I said i was done with the argument but i will say one last thing: no, i am not mad because other kids want to "play in my sandbox". I just don\'t think I or we or my family or my neighbors should have to pay for that sandbox through crazy taxes. Not that I go tanning, but a 10% tax on that? Pretty redic. And that is just a small example of things that will be taxed now. Lot of things are squished into that fine print.
Obviously if i\'ve been to the doctors so much in the last few months, maybe I am sick. Doesn\'t take a genius to read inbetween lines. So i am grateful for our insurance because had we not gotten married in august, i\'d be up a creek without a paddle, but you know what, i would have paid out of pocket like i always have since i was dumb enough not to have insurance all these years. i still have a running tab with yale that i am paying. i think its down to $400. I\'ve been on both sides of this coin. Maybe it seems like a crazy opinion not to want to take handouts or go on state or collect unemployment, but i never have and never will. and even if i wasn\'t married to a man with magic insurance, i still wouldn\'t want a handout. Just the way i am. Because i dealt the hand of my life, and i shouldn\'t expect my government to be my parent and clean up my irresponsible mess.
My husband has magic insurance because he worked hard, got a good job. Maybe when they were passing out the careers you should have chosen another line. I know I was in the wrong line. its not my fault or america\'s fault you chose a job career path in an industry and company that cheats you of proper benefits. Its your company\'s fault. Its the insurance\'s fault. Its a mass conspiracy of doctors, pharmaceuticals, insurance, etc. Blame them. Not the american people who have worked hard to get ahead and be part of the thriving middle class. Not fair to pull us all down and create unnecessary taxation.
And finally, are we really going to help the sick? I saw a homeless man in new haven yesterday who could barely walk begging for money. is he actually going to get proper care? I don\'t think so. Will he even get to the hospital? I dont think so. We have such bigger issues on hand in this country. Sorry you have to pay high rates for your insurance. But at least you have a home and a place to sleep at night. If they want to tax me to build homeless shelters, tax me away. If you want to tax me to help the VA or vets, tax me away. I just can\'t fathom taxing me to help whiners like you.
Cause in the end, that\'s whose sandbox we really are paying for. Greedy individuals who want more. I doubt in the end the money will go to the truly sick. It never does.
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But I am not getting ****. Maybe some are. It all depends on your insurance plan. We have good insurance that pays about 100% of everything. I\'ve been to the doctor 8 times in the last two months and trust me, my insurance paid a lot and I got every cents worth.
I stand corrected. You have "magic" insurance, that you don\'t have to pay for, yet covers everything.
Now, who pays this magic insurance? Oh, right you\'re your insurance is payed for by government. I don\'t understand how you can talk about how great your insurance is and simultaneously diss the very government that supplies said insurance.
I also would like to clarify:
1. My youthful ignorance comment was not directed at you. But I can see how your agreeing with Vassilos\'s might have made you think it was.
2. Our forefathers fought and won our independence from a FOREIGN government. That war had nothing to do with their desire for small government. It was all about TAXATION without REPRESENTATION.
I\'m sorry you hate the system that pays for insurance that allows you to go to the doctor 8 freakin times in 2 months for FREE. That system sounds like it really blows.
Your husband should quit his job and join the private sector with me. Where a chunk of my paycheck gets striped out for my horrible insurance, that only really covers catastrophic ****. Everything else I need to pay co-insurance and my deductible. Oh and if I ever get sick, then say get a new job, I will need to pay higher premiums because I have a pre-existing condition.
You know what, your argument is all about youthful ignorance. Talk to me after you get sick and you don\'t have government paid insurance.
Until then you just sound like a child throwing a tantrum because other kids now get to play in your sandbox.
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And lazy Americans. irresponsible etc etc to use your words. Well hows it is irresponsible of someone to get cancer ? or in a car accident or has and any number of aliments that have nothing to do with lifestyle. .
Just since Skye is getting grilled, I think I was the one ranting about all the preventable illnesses that are rampant among the irresponsible. I concur that cancer, car wrecks are not preventable/require critical care.
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Obama pushed through this few thousand page crock of **** because he knew
most of it was not needed or will never manifest into action.
As Captain of our American ship he is claiming charge of his vessel.
He was voted into office of President of the USA.
The rulers of past should respect their Captain.
While in office he wiil run things the way he feels best.
The Right Wing is only out to destroy their Captain and take over his ship.
This is mutiny! Mutiny was punishable by death at one time.
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I feel the health care bill is just a kick in the ass to make the private companies more
responsible on how they treat people.
Much of the health care bill probably will never take root. (Obama is aware of this)
A few changes will be made and fine tuned along the way.
:that:
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The private sector has failed the needs of the people.
People need proper care. It\'s the governments job to look after it\'s people.
If you want small government, go to a small country.
I feel the health care bill is just a kick in the ass to make the private companies more
responsible on how they treat people.
Much of the health care bill probably will never take root. (Obama is aware of this)
A few changes will be made and fine tuned along the way.
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kindm\'s what do you do for a living? Just curious. Cause i\'d like to know so i then can insert a personal attack on you. pretty petty. considering i don\'t know you from a hole in the wall.
Sorry we have "cadilliac" insurance because my husband goes out every night and RISKS HIS **** LIFE so you all can sleep peacefully in your beds. Do you know how many times he\'s been shot at by gang members in newhallville? Do you know how many times I\'ve gotten a call cause he\'s at the hospital needing stitches? You rub me as one of those people that\'s like "**** police" until you have to call 9-1-1 cause your car got broken into and then its like "oh police help me."
Police and Fire do thankless jobs. They deserve the best. Sorry. That\'s my opinion. And we then don\'t deserve to get extra taxes.
Tax payers pay for their salaries, yes(and we live in the town he works, so hence we put into the pot that ultimately pays him, its a bit of a vicious cycle).
I believe in helping others out. I do plenty of charity work. Donate money. Volunteer. I am a very kind hearted individual. This has nothing to do with me being bratty or me caring about anything that isn\'t involving my own.
I just think this bill is plain awful. Its going to hurt our country not help it. Its going to make us more dependent on our government. I am for small government.
I am all for good debating, and yes, thank you, Leith, for starting this. But the great thing about a good debate is when a person can refrain from personal attacks on the other. So, I\'ve said my peace. Done with this debate.
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:slow clap:
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go getter kindm\'s!!
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I don\'t know you, but that sounds like youthful ignorance to me. Ten years ago I probably would have agreed with you.
No youthful ignorance on my part. I am 31, hubs is going to be 33. We own a home. We are sick of being taxed to death and paying for other people\'s laziness, stupidity, and ignorance because we managed to get our lives together in our 20s so we could prosper in our 30s just to help carry the weight of irresponsible americans. I think zuke said it best that we are just lazy and stupid and greedy as a country. Our ancestors and our grandparents, great-grandparents suffered through such adversity. And all we do as the current generations is hold our hands out wanting more and more and more.
Last time I checked we fought and won our independence so the government could not control every aspect of our lives. But in a way, we are slowly handing over every little piece of it.
current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
Agreed.
If you realized how badly you were getting **** by the current system...
...well, I guess ignorance is bliss. Just pull your blinders down and go back to sleep.
But I am not getting ****. Maybe some are. It all depends on your insurance plan. We have good insurance that pays about 100% of everything. I\'ve been to the doctor 8 times in the last two months and trust me, my insurance paid a lot and I got every cents worth.
You know I wasn\'t going to post in this thread but reading your posts makes me very very angry.
Your first post basically says how you and yours are getting screwed because you have what is referred to as "Cadillac policies" and now you will be taxed because of it. WAHHHHHAA
First and foremost those taxes will not kick in for several years, many of the unions negotiated these things.
2nd. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK GAVE YOU THOSE BENEFITS TO BEGIN WITH ? we did. You know all the tax $$ that you and your husband receive as salary. So lets start with that. You guys are in a SOCIALIZED industry. Your husbands salary and his benefits as well as yours are all paid by taxes which everyone has to pay regardless if we use your services at all. So before you go spouting at the mouth remember if it wasn\'t for SOCIALISM you guys wouldn\'t even have jobs.
So all of your bitching about having to pay for other people. Well guess what, your benefits are a direct result of all of your fellow citizens paying for it. So of all people YOU should really be silent when trying to deny your fellow citizens the same basic coverage that they provide YOU.
Is this bill perfect ? Nope. The progressives among us wanted single payer universal healthcare where everyone pays their way. But unfortunately that lovely **** from YOUR state LIEberman killed that. It would have saved the USA trillions of dollars while also insuring everyone.
But from reading your posts it wouldn\'t have mattered anyway. YOU and YOURS aren\'t getting anything out of it so you would have been upset.
And lazy Americans. irresponsible etc etc to use your words. Well hows it is irresponsible of someone to get cancer ? or in a car accident or has and any number of aliments that have nothing to do with lifestyle. So lets say they had INS and then their INS one day finds a loophole and says sorry, pre-existing condition and they pull your policy and deny your claim. So they were responsible enough to have INS, to pay for it only to have their policy cancelled. YA they were irresponsible to get sick. That is basically what you are saying.
For a 31 year old you argue like a spoiled brat.
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No need to continue the argument at this point... It looks like they\'re going to have to vote again; the house has to vote again because the democrats didn\'t follow procedures...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/health/policy/26health.html?hp
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thanks for startin this thread leith, i am very confused by all this.
i\'m not even sure what my stance is. if i even need one?
i think i feel like every single person before they die (or when they die) is gonna have to go through some extreme seri-oid health ****, including receiving some type of emergency treatment to keep them alive. we don\'t just let people die. in fact people get prosecuted for not doing enough to try to keep people alive. the process of trying to keep people alive when they are near death costs ridiculous amounts of money. i feel like we should all just throw down together for those types of treatments where we are keeping people from dying.
sweet blegh. dont know what im sayin really
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I don\'t know you, but that sounds like youthful ignorance to me. Ten years ago I probably would have agreed with you.
No youthful ignorance on my part. I am 31, hubs is going to be 33. We own a home. We are sick of being taxed to death and paying for other people\'s laziness, stupidity, and ignorance because we managed to get our lives together in our 20s so we could prosper in our 30s just to help carry the weight of irresponsible americans. I think zuke said it best that we are just lazy and stupid and greedy as a country. Our ancestors and our grandparents, great-grandparents suffered through such adversity. And all we do as the current generations is hold our hands out wanting more and more and more.
Last time I checked we fought and won our independence so the government could not control every aspect of our lives. But in a way, we are slowly handing over every little piece of it.
current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
Agreed.
If you realized how badly you were getting **** by the current system...
...well, I guess ignorance is bliss. Just pull your blinders down and go back to sleep.
But I am not getting ****. Maybe some are. It all depends on your insurance plan. We have good insurance that pays about 100% of everything. I\'ve been to the doctor 8 times in the last two months and trust me, my insurance paid a lot and I got every cents worth.
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current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
Agreed.
If you realized how badly you were getting **** by the current system...
...well, I guess ignorance is bliss. Just pull your blinders down and go back to sleep.
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current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
Agreed.
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Using a Wilco quote in an arguement against me ;) touche.
I guess you are believing the Nancy Pelosi myth that diabetes and heart disease will be cured and wiped away. Passing the healthcare bill will not make this country healthier. You can\'t stop people from eating poorly or not exercising or for that matter, going to the doctor regularly. Country will be just as sick as it always. I did not have healthcare between the years 2004-2009. Whenever I did go to the doctor, I paid out of pocket. I had my first physical in 8 years two months ago. If I had healthcare, would have I gone for regular check ups? Nah. And I am sure there are a lot of twenty and thirty somethings that did and will do the same thing. Healthcare Bill does not equal personal responsibility for one\'s self.
In the end, we will still be at war. we will still have diseases. and we\'ll just have more taxes and debt.
And this change was for the good???
You are a visionless naysayer. Other countries have made this transitions, and their populations are better off because of it. Why can\'t we do it? Because it will be hard? There will be arguments? Bad choices? Old wealthy establishments will fall and new ones will rise?
GOOD.
The current system is failing you!! And you want to hold onto like some battered wife saying "he loves me and he\'ll change".
current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
You have no problem paying so much more then other countries and getting an inferior product?
I don\'t know you, but that sounds like youthful ignorance to me. Ten years ago I probably would have agreed with you.
The really hilarious part of this whole thread is that I work for an health insurance company, yet I\'m rooting for it\'s destruction.
go figure.
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Using a Wilco quote in an arguement against me ;) touche.
I guess you are believing the Nancy Pelosi myth that diabetes and heart disease will be cured and wiped away. Passing the healthcare bill will not make this country healthier. You can\'t stop people from eating poorly or not exercising or for that matter, going to the doctor regularly. Country will be just as sick as it always. I did not have healthcare between the years 2004-2009. Whenever I did go to the doctor, I paid out of pocket. I had my first physical in 8 years two months ago. If I had healthcare, would have I gone for regular check ups? Nah. And I am sure there are a lot of twenty and thirty somethings that did and will do the same thing. Healthcare Bill does not equal personal responsibility for one\'s self.
In the end, we will still be at war. we will still have diseases. and we\'ll just have more taxes and debt.
And this change was for the good???
You are a visionless naysayer. Other countries have made this transitions, and their populations are better off because of it. Why can\'t we do it? Because it will be hard? There will be arguments? Bad choices? Old wealthy establishments will fall and new ones will rise?
GOOD.
The current system is failing you!! And you want to hold onto like some battered wife saying "he loves me and he\'ll change".
current system is perfectly fine with me. i don\'t see this bill making it any better. only will make it stay the same or worse.
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Not if they\'re stagehands! American Stagehands
kick ass over any others. Hardest working for sure!
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Using a Wilco quote in an arguement against me ;) touche.
I guess you are believing the Nancy Pelosi myth that diabetes and heart disease will be cured and wiped away. Passing the healthcare bill will not make this country healthier. You can\'t stop people from eating poorly or not exercising or for that matter, going to the doctor regularly. Country will be just as sick as it always. I did not have healthcare between the years 2004-2009. Whenever I did go to the doctor, I paid out of pocket. I had my first physical in 8 years two months ago. If I had healthcare, would have I gone for regular check ups? Nah. And I am sure there are a lot of twenty and thirty somethings that did and will do the same thing. Healthcare Bill does not equal personal responsibility for one\'s self.
In the end, we will still be at war. we will still have diseases. and we\'ll just have more taxes and debt.
And this change was for the good???
You are a visionless naysayer. Other countries have made this transitions, and their populations are better off because of it. Why can\'t we do it? Because it will be hard? There will be arguments? Bad choices? Old wealthy establishments will fall and new ones will rise?
it will fail because americans are lazier, stupider, fatter, and greedier than everyone else
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Using a Wilco quote in an arguement against me ;) touche.
I guess you are believing the Nancy Pelosi myth that diabetes and heart disease will be cured and wiped away. Passing the healthcare bill will not make this country healthier. You can\'t stop people from eating poorly or not exercising or for that matter, going to the doctor regularly. Country will be just as sick as it always. I did not have healthcare between the years 2004-2009. Whenever I did go to the doctor, I paid out of pocket. I had my first physical in 8 years two months ago. If I had healthcare, would have I gone for regular check ups? Nah. And I am sure there are a lot of twenty and thirty somethings that did and will do the same thing. Healthcare Bill does not equal personal responsibility for one\'s self.
In the end, we will still be at war. we will still have diseases. and we\'ll just have more taxes and debt.
And this change was for the good???
You are a visionless naysayer. Other countries have made this transitions, and their populations are better off because of it. Why can\'t we do it? Because it will be hard? There will be arguments? Bad choices? Old wealthy establishments will fall and new ones will rise?
GOOD.
The current system is failing you!! And you want to hold onto like some battered wife saying "he loves me and he\'ll change".
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
it doesn\'t. and that\'s the problem. everyone voted for change. but did we get it? Nah, i don\'t think so. same sinking ship. just different captain. like i said earlier, we need a political reform, not a healthcare reform. we need politicians that are actually for the people not for making their pockets fat, or their cronies pockets fat.
"Every generation thinks It\'s the end of the world" - wilco
Obama gave you one of the largest tax cuts in US history and getting everyone healthcare. That\'s pretty fuckin\' big change.
Open your eye\'s, which ever way the wind blows is going to make someone rich. I\'d rather see people getting wealthy in the pursuit of a healthy country then fattening the pockets of a national war machine.
Using a Wilco quote in an arguement against me ;) touche.
I guess you are believing the Nancy Pelosi myth that diabetes and heart disease will be cured and wiped away. Passing the healthcare bill will not make this country healthier. You can\'t stop people from eating poorly or not exercising or for that matter, going to the doctor regularly. Country will be just as sick as it always. I did not have healthcare between the years 2004-2009. Whenever I did go to the doctor, I paid out of pocket. I had my first physical in 8 years two months ago. If I had healthcare, would have I gone for regular check ups? Nah. And I am sure there are a lot of twenty and thirty somethings that did and will do the same thing. Healthcare Bill does not equal personal responsibility for one\'s self.
In the end, we will still be at war. we will still have diseases. and we\'ll just have more taxes and debt.
And this change was for the good???
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
it doesn\'t. and that\'s the problem. everyone voted for change. but did we get it? Nah, i don\'t think so. same sinking ship. just different captain. like i said earlier, we need a political reform, not a healthcare reform. we need politicians that are actually for the people not for making their pockets fat, or their cronies pockets fat.
"Every generation thinks It\'s the end of the world" - wilco
Obama gave you one of the largest tax cuts in US history and getting everyone healthcare. That\'s pretty fuckin\' big change.
Open your eye\'s, which ever way the wind blows is going to make someone rich. I\'d rather see people getting wealthy in the pursuit of a healthy country then fattening the pockets of a national war machine.
Hope you are still running/in wellness mode, since we\'re on the subject of health.
check Frontline "Sick around the world", it\'s a 2 sided look at different healthcare systems around the world.
ps
Still a fat bastard, but trying my best. Just got in from my morning run and looking forward to getting the road bike out this weekend for the first ride of spring.
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except that obama actively listened to the right and included 90% of their suggestions into the bill (well, had them put in). the right simply said, No. even after getting their way on most of their issues (like today\'s executive order banning the amount of federal funding from increasing under this new bill). the fact is, the right was unwilling to actually engage in the debate. you can\'t blame that on anyone but them. their ideas and suggestions (when they actually had any) were heeded and largely included. had they had any coherent alternatives that were outright ignored, then this argument would hold water. they never presented anything but objections. no bill of their own. no suggestions for how to achieve this legislation (again, that the majority of the country wants), just obstructionism. if you want to talk about brazen and unhelpful partisanship, mccain\'s statement that the republicans will not do anything else all year is where you should be focusing your ire.
If I was smart, I would have written this.
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
it doesn\'t. and that\'s the problem. everyone voted for change. but did we get it? Nah, i don\'t think so. same sinking ship. just different captain. like i said earlier, we need a political reform, not a healthcare reform. we need politicians that are actually for the people not for making their pockets fat, or their cronies pockets fat.
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
How you doing, Slim?
doing real well Zurflu. You?
always good to have a WSJ.com reading Nazi like you in the mix in threads like this.
Hope you are still running/in wellness mode, since we\'re on the subject of health.
As a fiscal conservative I place a high priority on costs/personal responsibility in the debate. Reminds me I\'ve got a few more sections to read, thanks!
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Can we really only attribute skyrocketing costs to insurance companies for an extraordinarily unhealthy nation filled with preventable and costly ailments? I have to subsidize every irresponsible fat fucker/a zillion preventable ills with prescription drugs & care and I\'m pissed. Health care is getting very expensive/out of reach for the average person and I agree that something certainly has to give.
Hey Zurflu, you\'re already subsidizing those irresponsible fat fuckers and the poor people that drive their cellphone wielding kids to school in fancy rimmed cars.
Who do you think is paying for those who can\'t cover their hospital tab? Or the MONSTER CLAIM submitted to the insurance company because someone spends 3 months in the hospital for something that a healthy person probably could have shaken with over the counter meds?
You are.
Why do you think your insurance premiums are going up 30% every year.
Maybe we should kill off the poor and unhealthy by not giving them healthcare... but then who would buy all those cellphones for their POOR FAT children to bring to school.
Oh trust me, I\'m aware of how it all tallies up, I\'m just disgusted by the irresponsible behaviors at all levels of involvement.
Japan, Switzerland, England... they were all able to improve the system by getting involved. Control cost, encourage health over profits.
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Can we really only attribute skyrocketing costs to insurance companies for an extraordinarily unhealthy nation filled with preventable and costly ailments? I have to subsidize every irresponsible fat fucker/a zillion preventable ills with prescription drugs & care and I\'m pissed. Health care is getting very expensive/out of reach for the average person and I agree that something certainly has to give.
Hey Zurflu, you\'re already subsidizing those irresponsible fat fuckers and the poor people that drive their cellphone wielding kids to school in fancy rimmed cars.
Who do you think is paying for those who can\'t cover their hospital tab? Or the MONSTER CLAIM submitted to the insurance company because someone spends 3 months in the hospital for something that a healthy person probably could have shaken with over the counter meds?
You are.
Why do you think your insurance premiums are going up 30% every year.
Maybe we should kill off the poor and unhealthy by not giving them healthcare... but then who would buy all those cellphones for their POOR FAT children to bring to school.
Oh trust me, I\'m aware of how it all tallies up, I\'m just disgusted by the irresponsible behaviors at all levels of involvement.
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Can we really only attribute skyrocketing costs to insurance companies for an extraordinarily unhealthy nation filled with preventable and costly ailments? I have to subsidize every irresponsible fat fucker/a zillion preventable ills with prescription drugs & care and I\'m pissed. Health care is getting very expensive/out of reach for the average person and I agree that something certainly has to give.
Hey Zurflu, you\'re already subsidizing those irresponsible fat fuckers and the poor people that drive their cellphone wielding kids to school in fancy rimmed cars.
Who do you think is paying for those who can\'t cover their hospital tab? Or the MONSTER CLAIM submitted to the insurance company because someone spends 3 months in the hospital for something that a healthy person probably could have shaken with over the counter meds?
You are.
Why do you think your insurance premiums are going up 30% every year.
Maybe we should kill off the poor and unhealthy by not giving them healthcare... but then who would buy all those cellphones for their POOR FAT children to bring to school.
He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
It\'s really not a comparison, just a rebuke to what Cannon added.
How you doing, Slim?
doing real well Zurflu. You?
always good to have a WSJ.com reading Nazi like you in the mix in threads like this.
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except that obama actively listened to the right and included 90% of their suggestions into the bill (well, had them put in). the right simply said, No. even after getting their way on most of their issues (like today\'s executive order banning the amount of federal funding from increasing under this new bill). the fact is, the right was unwilling to actually engage in the debate. you can\'t blame that on anyone but them. their ideas and suggestions (when they actually had any) were heeded and largely included. had they had any coherent alternatives that were outright ignored, then this argument would hold water. they never presented anything but objections. no bill of their own. no suggestions for how to achieve this legislation (again, that the majority of the country wants), just obstructionism. if you want to talk about brazen and unhelpful partisanship, mccain\'s statement that the republicans will not do anything else all year is where you should be focusing your ire.
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
It\'s really not a comparison, just a rebuke to what Cannon added.
How you doing, Slim?
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
And this differs from the previous administration, how?
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He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
well put.
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Can we really only attribute skyrocketing costs to insurance companies for an extraordinarily unhealthy nation filled with preventable and costly ailments? I have to subsidize every irresponsible fat fucker/a zillion preventable ills with prescription drugs & care and I\'m pissed. Health care is getting very expensive/out of reach for the average person and I agree that something certainly has to give. A lot of these uninsured have the money to send their middle school kids to school with cell phones, outfit their cars with rims, oufit their project unit with a satellite dish etc.....but have no money for books, pencils, healthy food.... so where are the priorities? I agree with Slim or Jking about the food subsidies, can\'t remember which one posted. I try to live my life below my means and I\'m just disgusted by the level of irresponsibility in the government and among the populace. Maybe we could actually treat the uninsured in a cost-effective manner if a majority had a more active interest in their health?
I called Obama smart is because he listens to both sides and strives for cooperation instead of division.
That is :fart:
You may have believed his campaign talk of cooperation and doing things differently but you will be hardpressed to claim he is a negotiator of both sides. He is a nannystate power grabber to the core and will steam roll/shut out the other party from any input like the worst of \'em.
He could barely rally the support of his own party to pass this thing and had to jeopardize the most vulnerable, conservative-leaning members of his party to get it done. Massive legislation was crammed in without support of the other party does not point toward cooperation.
Whoever else is eating the horseshit about a new trillion dollar entitlement/subsidy reducing the deficit, you have got to be kidding me. The costs are either going to balloon on this thing or the quality of care is going to suffer (likely both). Taxes for everyone who pays them are going up, whether they are direct or hidden increases built into every other aspect of our existence.
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the reason I called Bush a moron was because of his narrow minded viewpoint (i.e., war without inquiry). I think his intentions may have been good, but his refusal to even listen to opposing viewpoints labels him a moron in my lingo. The reason I called Obama smart is because he listens to both sides and strives for cooperation instead of division. I would actually like a hybrid of the two: a president who listens to both sides, like Obama, and takes action with determination, like Bush. In any case, I\'ll seek the whole picture, and always enjoy opposing viewpoints as a learning experience and a clarifier of my own opinions.
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that was pretty cut and dry, though drew... you go get the people responsible for that attack, not some unrelated party.
however, the bushes are both politically and personally too close to the saudis to bother them. remember that *none* of the original reasons for going to iraq were proven to be true. not the wmds, and not the stated international agreement of those wmds. the country wanted to lash out, but the neocons wanted a new never ending war (ala the cold war) which would keep the military industrial complex profitable, so instead of actually going after the small group of people responsible, we created a shitstorm that won\'t end anytime in the foreseeable future.
I\'m not saying that W. handled the situation well; I\'m just saying that it\'s not as easy as calling one president an "f\'n moron" and the other a victim of circumstance.
I think it\'s pretty easy to call bush a f\'n moron. He weakened this country when it was hurting the worst. We\'ll never know, but it\'s a shame we didn\'t have a thinking president behind us after 9/11. I wonder if the path they led us down might have had us in a better position to handle the economic **** storm of the last 2 years.
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well, sure, but dubya wasn\'t an intellectual giant, you\'ve gotta admit. hell, he did more to further anti-intellectualism (being smart does not equal being elitist) than anyone since reagan. and looking at his previous history in business, every company he ran failed. so did the country he ran. but that\'s not really on topic...
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that was pretty cut and dry, though drew... you go get the people responsible for that attack, not some unrelated party.
however, the bushes are both politically and personally too close to the saudis to bother them. remember that *none* of the original reasons for going to iraq were proven to be true. not the wmds, and not the stated international agreement of those wmds. the country wanted to lash out, but the neocons wanted a new never ending war (ala the cold war) which would keep the military industrial complex profitable, so instead of actually going after the small group of people responsible, we created a shitstorm that won\'t end anytime in the foreseeable future.
I\'m not saying that W. handled the situation well; I\'m just saying that it\'s not as easy as calling one president an "f\'n moron" and the other a victim of circumstance.
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that was pretty cut and dry, though drew... you go get the people responsible for that attack, not some unrelated party.
however, the bushes are both politically and personally too close to the saudis to bother them. remember that *none* of the original reasons for going to iraq were proven to be true. not the wmds, and not the stated international agreement of those wmds. the country wanted to lash out, but the neocons wanted a new never ending war (ala the cold war) which would keep the military industrial complex profitable, so instead of actually going after the small group of people responsible, we created a shitstorm that won\'t end anytime in the foreseeable future.
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I actually believe Bush Jr. and Obama both tried to do what\'s best for the US. EXCEPT that G\'dub was a f\'ing moron and got played like a puppet by Rove/Cheny, and Obama is a smart man with some decent plans. I strongly disagree with BoBama on some issues (cannabis legalization), but I think he\'s honestly trying, given the complex set of cards he\'s being delt: the many "angles" of influence & responsibility within his job.
It sounds to me like you\'re giving the benefit of the doubt to the guy you like while cutting no slack for the guy you don\'t like. Bush was dealt a pretty "complex set of cards" too... you may remember a pair of commercial airliners crashing into two of the world\'s tallest buildings.
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It\'s things like this that make me give up hope on humanity.
But it\'s music, positive people, and sunny days that bring back that hope.
I\'ll give up healthcare reform, the drug war, anything really, if we could just find a means to come together for total benefit... I consider myself well-read on political issues, and I can\'t make sense of what\'s going on with "healthcare reform".
The way I see the issue: complex beyond a simple distillation by either democraps or repulivegants. Gov\'t by the people, in the true interests of the people, OR no government at all. MONEY has corrupted the bulk majority of every side of government.
I actually believe Bush Jr. and Obama both tried to do what\'s best for the US. EXCEPT that G\'dub was a f\'ing moron and got played like a puppet by Rove/Cheny, and Obama is a smart man with some decent plans. I strongly disagree with BoBama on some issues (cannabis legalization), but I think he\'s honestly trying, given the complex set of cards he\'s being delt: the many "angles" of influence & responsibility within his job.
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Changes take time, keep faith.
Yes, there are GOOD people in our political system.
Let\'s give them some support.
No politician is good? Contemplate that some more, anger is overriding reason.
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^Wow, you drank the kool aid, eh?
no politician is good. and this is coming for a girl whose mother is a politician. ugh. don\'t think any of them are actually out for us. republicans or democrats. they both are full of corruption. obama is not making this country any better off.
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Shake up the ****, it\'s all a mess anyway!
It\'s NOT about health care reform, it\'s about having the POWER the POWER the POWER to make changes!
Passing this bill is a strong statement against those power hungry, greedy **** who do
everything for their own self interests. They don\'t give a **** about the PEOPLE!
Obama is for the people, which is US! Obama is trying to break up this arrogant,
self serving, self centered, vicious group of political **** who claim to be AMERICANS.
Get with the program people! The Bush administration was the WORST group of **** up
pieces of political garbage to ever run our country. They want their POWER back!
Please stand by our PRESIDENT! He is a very intelligent, aware man!
He wants the BEST for all of us! There is so much to go up against!
It will take MANY years to work out the MESS of George and friends.
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this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics.
this is something we can agree on! :)
I really feel like before we make bills that will change our country, we need to have a political reform of the way our country is run.
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
very wise, Drew. And very true.
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so, skye, you (correctly) argue that people don\'t know enough about the bill, then argue that they\'re right to not want it. perhaps if they actually knew more about it, more would be for it?
per a usa today poll from today, 49% favor the bill, 40% oppose. not how it was handled, not how it will affect, just straight favor/oppose. most people favor. most are worried, also, that its done correctly in the long run, but most actually are for this. that\'s what i was getting at. your conversations with people are what\'s called \'anecdotal evidence\'. coming from a background in politics, i can assure you that anecdotal evidence is never accurate. whether its due to people wanting to not ruffle feathers or personal bias on the part of the listener, its never good information. blind/anonymous polls are the only way to get decent info.
this isn\'t meant to be a bashing post, btw, i fully respect that many people are afraid of this bill. i\'m sad that all sides (pols and media) have used scare tactics and hyperbole to get attention. i mean, the republicans got almost everything they wanted in this bill and yet were still obstructionist. the dems caved on all the provisions that would have been most helpful. and the media pushed whatever inflammatory angle they could to get ratings. this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics.
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I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
While I\'m happy that we\'re moving forward with this reform process, I totally agree with you.
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I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
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Because of how we have structured our healthcare over the past 50 years YOU pay 7 times more for it then people of other industrialized nation.
In 2000 the World Health Organization ranked the US health industry 36th.
You\'re paying more and getting less. If you\'re ok with this, then keep arguing for the status quo.
This transition is going to be difficult, things will constantly need to be revised.
The Swiss went through a similar transition in 1994. If you\'re sick of listening to the Bullshit talking points from both sides of this argument and want to see a real interesting look at alternates to our system. Watch
Sick Around the World, it\'s available online, through PBS frontline.
Here\'s a graph for Flounder to sit on:
(https://thebreakfast.info/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcleantechcompass.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F01%2Fpicture-14.png&hash=afc76adb7bd562ed0f39463e10d63ebdc3db9c2c)
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you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?
most people i know and talk to (reps, dems, and mostly independents) are not for this. spin machine works on both sides. cnn and msnbc and fox all have polls to show the opinion they want. you need to look up unbiased polls and it shows.... as a country...we are not for or against this. we are undecided. Which to me is a huge red flag saying: UH OH.
CBS did a newspoll this weekend:
When asked how the reforms will affect the health care system, 29 percent of respondents said "Better" and 34 percent said "Worse." But 28 percent said they didn\'t know enough. And when asked if they understood the reforms, 54 percent of respondents said they were confusion, only 42 percent said they understood what\'s in the bill.
To me, that\'s scary ass stuff ^^^
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you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?
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wow, someone who agrees with me here!
i\'m pretty peeved about this whole thing. I think overall the majority of the country was very uneducated about what this bill actually is. nancy pelosi and her propaganda trying to compare this to the civil rights movement makes me want to vomit. Clips of her saying that this bill will prevent diabetes. Hello?? nancy, diabetes is genetic. The government can\'t stop me from gorging on candy and getting sick. A bill will not do that. Idiots.
And for people who think this won\'t affect you, it will. oh it will. maybe not today, but in like 5-10 years. Or when you are seniors.
but in any case, it seriously was out of our hands to control. the only way we can stand up and let them know it was wrong is not to re-elect people in the coming years who voted for this mess.
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wow, someone who agrees with me here!
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I don\'t know how i feel about this yet. Until it affects me, I have no opinion. Yes, I\'m selfish like that.
Well, if you are like my husband and I, it will affect you soon. Anyone who has beyond excellent exceptional medical, usually members of unions (police, fire, teachers, etc), are going to get an extra tax..... which is unfair in so many ways. So since my husband works a good job with great benefits, we have to pay for people who are a) lazy b) ignorant or c) just have bad benefits. Seems unfair. Very communist.
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up?
it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing.
actually, middle to upper middle class will end up paying **** loads.
per norm, middle class screwed over while the lower class who already collect way too many benefits get **** loads of more benefits that they will waste.
Obama was going to do what he had to do to get this passed no matter what the American public feels about it... It\'s just a shame that no one listens to the people anymore...
exactly, yoda. this was going to happen whether people argued or not. Obama will feel the heat in about two years when he\'s not re-elected.
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the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up?
it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing.
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the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up?
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it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
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* Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS.
You had me until this part. I\'m not sure who will fall into the "buying their own" sector, but I do know that if I don\'t want to pay for health insurance, it\'s not because I have a bunch of extra money to pay fines with.
haha right? what happens when these (most likely) poor people don\'t pay the fines? lock them up?
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* Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS.
You had me until this part. I\'m not sure who will fall into the "buying their own" sector, but I do know that if I don\'t want to pay for health insurance, it\'s not because I have a bunch of extra money to pay fines with.
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the vast majority of people will see no change in either their taxes or coverage, the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time, and people who need health care will have access to it. it will not end sickness nor will it lead to socialism.
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hmm. well according to the washington post link, nothing really changes for me, so i guess what the govt thinks about my intelligence doesn\'t really matter (in this matter anway). and i guess it\'s good to help the sick (especially if it doesn\'t cost me money). so is there like a vote or what? are a lot of people affected by it? i see a lot more hate than love for this based on other people\'s facebook activities. maybe i should just continue to ignore everything?
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I don\'t know how i feel about this yet. Until it affects me, I have no opinion. Yes, I\'m selfish like that.
It is good that everyone has a chance for healthcare now. That is obviously the good side of this. But once again it comes down to money. The root of all evil.
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Health Care is a right and not a privelege.
The spread of wealth creates a more balanced societal network, alleviating poverty, disease, and crime.
Universal coverage can curb the threat from epidemic and endemic viruses such as H1N1, HIV etc.
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can somebody break this argument down to, like, three sentences for me?
your government does not think you are smart enough to manage your health care.
your government does not think you are smart enough to manage your money.
your government sees an opportunity to pad all the right pockets by making these decisions for you.
Go Obama
right on. thanks. how about the other side of the argument?
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http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/mar/22/no-headline---healthcare_folo_primer/
fixed link
can somebody break this argument down to, like, three sentences for me?
your government does not think you are smart enough to manage your health care.
your government does not think you are smart enough to manage your money.
your government sees an opportunity to pad all the right pockets by making these decisions for you.
Go Obama
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can somebody break this argument down to, like, three sentences for me?
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blegh
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Whatthe Health Care Bill Means For You/ (http://http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/)
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I honestly feel everyone has the right to the necessities of life as a basis for civilization: reasonable safety, basic healthcare, shelter, social support, and some kind of job opportunity.
I think this bill, with its many flaws, is a very small step towards providing the human right to healthcare. Police, Judicary, Fire Protection, Transportation, and many other bases of civilization are "socialized", i.e. paid for by everyone, whether or not they need it. Otherwise we should live in a fully anarchic society, which would also be fine by me.
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I think that in theory it\'s a good idea to get everyone healthcare, but I don\'t think socialized medical care is the way to go... Just ask our friends to the north and over in europe how much they like it.... Obama was going to do what he had to do to get this passed no matter what the American public feels about it... It\'s just a shame that no one listens to the people anymore...
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I think its got its good points and its absurdly ridiculous points, but i\'ve given up on arguing over its inconsistency. abortion, Medicare, pharmaceuticals, i mean i have an opinion but i don\'t support a lot of westernized medicine anyway. Health care should never be mandatory.
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nothing like he healthy to subsidize the sick... this should bankrupt the nation in half a dozen years or so!
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Seems odd for this bunch. I personally am stoked
it\'s not perfect but it\'s a start.