General Discussions => Spunk => Topic started by: FrankZappa on February 10, 2009, 10:28:22 am
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Wolfman on March 01, 2010, 09:17:01 pm
Well I\'m sure they were the only ones doing it, so now we can all get tickets to everything, yay! :rolleyes: Wonder how many Red Rocks tickets they got? Probably all of them.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Spacey on March 01, 2010, 04:09:21 pm
Quote from: FrankZappa;253481
4 charged with hacking into concert ticket sites NEWARK, N.J., Mon Mar 01, 01:33 PM Federal prosecutors in New Jersey say four California men made more than $25 million reselling tickets to concerts and sporting events they acquired by hacking into Ticketmaster.com and other Web sites.
Prosecutors say the men fraudulently obtained more than a million tickets. Authorities in Newark charged 40-year-old Kenneth Lowson, 37-year-old Kristofer Kirsch, 36-year-old Faisal Nahdi and 37-year-old Joel Stevenson on Monday.
The indictment charges the men with multiple wire fraud counts and gaining unauthorized access to computer systems.
Prosecutors say the trio\'s company, Wiseguy Tickets, allegedly devised computer programs that impersonated individual ticket buyers to bombard ticket Web sites. The programs were able to bypass safeguards meant to restrict the number of tickets each customer can buy.
Heard about that. Bastards!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on March 01, 2010, 01:57:15 pm
4 charged with hacking into concert ticket sites NEWARK, N.J., Mon Mar 01, 01:33 PM Federal prosecutors in New Jersey say four California men made more than $25 million reselling tickets to concerts and sporting events they acquired by hacking into Ticketmaster.com and other Web sites.
Prosecutors say the men fraudulently obtained more than a million tickets. Authorities in Newark charged 40-year-old Kenneth Lowson, 37-year-old Kristofer Kirsch, 36-year-old Faisal Nahdi and 37-year-old Joel Stevenson on Monday.
The indictment charges the men with multiple wire fraud counts and gaining unauthorized access to computer systems.
Prosecutors say the trio\'s company, Wiseguy Tickets, allegedly devised computer programs that impersonated individual ticket buyers to bombard ticket Web sites. The programs were able to bypass safeguards meant to restrict the number of tickets each customer can buy.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Wolfman on January 25, 2010, 07:55:54 pm
The LN/TM merger has been conditionally approved. http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2010-01-25-livenation-ticketmaster_N.htm?csp=34
In a related story, guess the face value (not including any shipping charges) for a ticket to see Of Montreal this Wednesday at The Paradise in Boston...
...Take a guess...
Consider that this band has no hit songs, no hit albums, and the show is on a Wednesday night at a venue with a 600 person capacity. Last hint: When they played the same venue 9 months ago on 4/20/09, the face value was $20.
Answer: To get a sense of the level of inflation in the ticket market in recent months and years, I pulled out some ticket stubs I have from seeing similar bands at the same exact venue (The Paradise.) Ticket prices are the price plus convenience charges (if any) listed on the face of tickets. I\'ve also included the percentage of how much less these prices are relative to the $54.40 Of Montreal ticket for 1/27/10. Finally, I\'ve included the annual inflation rate each ticket would have had to go through in order to be worth $54.40 in January 2010. Check this out:
Monday 4/20/09 - Of Montreal - $20.00 - 63% less - 229% annual inflation Tuesday 12/30/08 - Soulive - $28.80 - 47% less - 88% annual inflation Saturday 12/27/08 - The Slip - $24.75 - 54% less - 120% annual inflation Friday 2/23/07 - The Slip - $21.25 - 61% less - 78% annual inflation Friday 8/11/06 - Lyrics Born - $19.75 - 64% less - 53% annual inflation Thursday 3/16/06 - Tea Leaf Green - $15.70 - 71% less - 88% annual inflation Thursday 2/18/99 - Percy Hill - $10.00 - 82% less - 40% annual inflation
The generally accepted national annual inflation rate is 1.5-2%. The most disturbing piece of data here to me is definitely the Of Montreal ticket nearly tripling 9 months later at the same venue. This may be an augur of things to come in the newly merged LN/TM world.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on May 08, 2009, 06:52:42 pm
Quote from: antbach;229906
Seems like this is now underway since if you search on Ticketmaster for any show, it lists all shows now and redirects you to Live Nation if it\'s being sold by LN.
just for livenation venues. it\'s bee like that for a while. LN also list all shows and redirects to TM for tix that they sell.. look up something at mohegan for example on TM.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: antbach on May 08, 2009, 06:46:02 pm
Seems like this is now underway since if you search on Ticketmaster for any show, it lists all shows now and redirects you to Live Nation if it\'s being sold by LN.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: NickNels on March 26, 2009, 03:53:35 pm
http://www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/ht-interview-exclusive-david-butler-president-of-ticketmaster-north-america/ HT Interview Exclusive: David Butler - President of Ticketmaster North America
Last week, Ticketmaster took some major heat for an unplanned and accidental presale for tickets for Phish’s four performances at Red Rocks this summer. Fans that thought they had stumbled onto a surprise jackpot had their orders canceled and received an email from David Butler, President of Ticketmaster North America, explaining why.
In an exclusive Q&A with Hidden Track, Luke Sacks spoke with Butler, who is responsible for Ticketmaster’s primary ticketing business in the US and Canada, via phone about the cause of the error, how Ticketmaster is working to thwart scalpers, what band he has seen nearly 50 times himself and more.
LUKE SACKS: Let’s start with the incident last week when tickets for the Red Rocks shows went on sale early. Speculation among fans has ranged from a simple computer glitch to Ticketmaster secretly activating that link so scalpers could get in and do their thing. From your perspective, can you walk me through what happened?
DAVID BUTLER: Absolutely. It was fundamentally human error by an employee of Ticketmaster in our Rocky Mountain region. An experienced person, who has been with us for years, accidentally, in releasing the show to be visible on the website that the on-sale was coming, accidentally made it appear to be on sale against the desires of the promoter or the artist. It was really just human error. She was trying to set it up so the show would be apparent with the future on-sale date so the fans would know it was coming. She just goofed.
LS: So that happened, all these orders were filled and eventually the decision was made to cancel these orders. Who made the decision to cancel the orders and subsequently to send out the $50 credit? Were those solely Ticketmaster decisions? Was the band or their management involved?
DB: To be clear, the mistake was totally ours at Ticketmaster and that’s why we sent out the gift certificates. Our policy is, if there is ever an error and the event goes on sale prior to the on-sale date, even if its on our website, that we will invalidate all the orders and if any money is taken we will refund it because we have to protect the integrity of the artist and the promoter that the show goes on sale as announced to the fans. So that’s exactly what we did.
READ ON for more of our exclusive interview with David Butler…
Two other facts just to be clear: We didn’t take any money from any fans. We caught this early enough in the evening that while we might have authorized the card for a fan when they were buying, we never sent the request to the banks for funds. So I held all the orders, we removed those from the settlement process and we are the ones, at Ticketmaster, who came up with the idea to issue a gift certificate for $50 to each of the affected fans along with a letter explaining what happened.
LS: So the band was not involved in those decisions? You made them?
DB: Absolutely. However we were in contact, as you might imagine, with the band’s management and the promoter about the facts of what had occurred and the events. But the error was ours. If anyone is frustrated, as much as nobody wants to be in this situation, I ask that fans shouldn’t be upset with Phish or AEG or Red Rocks. They should realize that we made a human error.
We want all Phish fans to have fair and equal chance to buy the tickets at the announced on-sale date and time, which is set by the promoter and the band. So nobody kept tickets from the accidental availability. We canceled every order on the system. As it turns out there were a little over 1,800 fans that were impacted – about 1,860 or 1,870 total. We are sending out to each of them a $50 gift certificate on our nickel to apologize and we are encouraging them to come this Thursday when the actual on sale will occur. Our policy is to cancel it because we want to do the fair thing for all the fans. It wouldn’t have been fair in this case to let people who stumbled across the mistake keep the tickets. So that’s the reason we took the steps we did. But there is no conspiracy theories and to be clear, there are no links between the Ticketmaster website and any secondary resale environment, like TicketsNow, which we own. There is no link. We in fact barred anyone listing the canceled tickets on TicketsNow because we didn’t want fans to be confused. Unfortunately, I went online and StubHub had tickets for sale for this mistake event a couple of days later. We did notify the band of that.
LS: I’m glad you mentioned TicketsNow. How does TicketsNow get its tickets? Are they just like the rest of the general public where they have employees on the phones and on the internet?
DB: I’m so glad you asked that because it’s the number one misperception about the secondary ticket market. Ticketmaster, for primary tickets, owns zero inventory. We don’t own a single ticket to any Phish concert. We simply provide the mechanism for the band and the venue to sell their tickets to the public. Similarly, we own TicketsNow as you are aware, but we don’t own the tickets on TicketsNow. We simply provide an e-commerce site for buyers and sellers to meet and have a safe transaction between them. The tickets that are listed, typically, for resale on TicketsNow as an example, are owned, some by fans and most by brokers. Brokers get their tickets either by going in the on sale and buying tickets; many times they have season tickets for events so they get them that way. They may have a relationship with a promoter or a band but they don’t get any preferential treatment from Ticketmaster whatsoever.
LS: Does Ticketmaster take proactive efforts to thwart the efforts of scalpers beyond the Captcha software?
DB: Yes. Without giving away any secrets that would make it easier for them, I want you to know that our number one goal is that every ticket ends up in the fans hands. That’s what we try to make happen. So we have a number of layers of technology that we use to identify what appears to be either robotic traffic – if you look at our website you will see that we got an injunction against a company last year because they were selling the software program to brokers to attack our site to try to get tickets. We got the court to block that practice and enjoin the company not to do it anymore. We employ roughly 20 people all day long who are constantly looking at this cat-and-mouse game of automated programs and finding new ways to block or frustrate them.
In a perfect world, we wish every buyer at every on sale were the fan that plans to attend the event. That’s why we released paperless ticketing and if you notice the AC/DC concerts used it and Metallica used it when they played the (London) O2 (Arena) with us. In that scenario, when you buy your ticket, to enter the event you actually use the credit card you used to purchase the ticket to get in. That’s an anti-resale mechanism that our venues and our clients have as an option to make sure the fans are the ones who get the tickets.
LS: Does your battle with scalpers ultimately boil down to technology? You come up with something new and they come up with a way around it and so on?
DB: From a primary sales perspective, we don’t want anyone to get an unfair advantage over anyone else. Having said that, reselling tickets is legal in most of North America with a few exceptions and therefore we own TicketsNow because we know fans want to be able to sell tickets to events they can’t attend. I have season tickets for hockey and I can’t go to every game. There are a lot of fans like that who want the ability to resell their tickets and there are lots of fans who buy at the last minute and want to be able to get great seats and are willing to pay a premium price. I don’t mean to demonize the whole secondary world because I think it provides a valid business service in the marketplace. My point is that in our responsibility as the primary partner helping venues sell tickets for artists, we want to make it that nobody gets an unfair advantage. That’s why we refunded all the (Phish) orders and instead will stick with the scheduled on sale. That’s why we try to block robotic traffic. In both those cases it was an unfair advantage for someone, albeit in the early presale it wasn’t the fans fault, it was our mistake. We want everything to be fair and transparent so every fan has an equal opportunity to get the tickets.
LS: Your name was on the email that went out to the Phish fans. Have you gotten many responses? If so, have they been along the lines of “thank you for the $50” or more people complaining that $50 doesn’t help them get Phish Red Rocks tickets?
DB: I haven’t had that, in fairness. I have had some that were positive saying this was more than I expected and probably more than you needed to do so thank you. In fact there was a nice article in the Denver Post with a couple of fans quoting that. And I’ve had some fans that were frustrated and said things like, “I’ve been waiting my whole life to get tickets for this” or “I’ve waited 15 years for them to go back to Red Rocks, I can’t believe you are canceling my order” and I have to explain to them that we did it because we were trying to do the fair, right thing for all the fans. I don’t blame a fan for being frustrated; it’s a frustrating situation. I just want them to understand it was an innocent, human error by someone on our staff and we tried to do right by it, and that was canceling it and we tried to do more than just right and that was the purpose of the $50 gift certificate. I ended up paying out almost $100,000 to fans as an apology.
LS: Being a Phish fan myself, I know Phish fans can be rabid when it comes to tickets. Is Phish a unique situation for you? I know there have been problems with Bruce Springsteen and some other artists in the past involving tickets. But do you guys take separate steps or are there certain things you do for artists where the demand is so high versus what you might do for your average hockey or basketball game?
DB: We know the high demand acts based on past history. We work directly with the artists and their agents with our music services group to ensure we give a great experience to the artist on a national level. There are very few acts that have the passionate following that Phish does. There are some others – Bruce Springsteen is another good example that you raised. Jimmy Buffet is another one that could fall into that group as well.
While I haven’t been to 100 Phish concerts, I think I’ve been to 45 or 50 Jimmy Buffet concerts. So you and I are somewhat comparable there. The reality is that for these really high-demand shows, we make sure the resources are available to have a good, positive selling experience with the fans. But the problem we run into with a venue like Red Rocks, where there are 4,000 seats available to the general public in that on-sale per show, the reality is that they could probably sell 50,000 or 100,000 because the fan base is so large and so committed. This is really an issue of supply and demand and that’s as frustrating as anything to a committed fan. There are so many people that want to attend and only so many seats per venue. If Phish stayed at Red Rocks for three months and played every weekend I bet we’d sell every ticket out. Michael Jackson just went on sale for London at the O2 and we sold out 50 shows in the first three days.
LS: Moving forward, what are some of the steps you have taken or will take to ensure this type of mistake doesn’t happen again?
DB: We have checks and balances for every event set up where an employee and his or her manager independently review all the details of the show and make sure that everything is accurate. In this particular case, that process did not work. We are looking at why that is.
Secondly, we automate the event setup process, as you would imagine, because the artist determines how many seats, what the prices are, when they will go on sale and then we automate that. We are looking at the tools we use to make sure there is a way to take the information we got from the band and check it against the setup to make sure nothing is inaccurate before we publish it.
We constantly are improving those tools, those event-management tools, to make that work better. We do a huge number of events every year and it’s very very very seldom that a mistake like this gets through the system. Nonetheless, it did happen and for the fans impacted, it was 1-1 for them. But for us, we sold over 100 million tickets last year and I can’t remember this happening in this time period. It really was an individual event based on human error yet we are working hard to improve and do a great job as we do 99.9 percent of the time.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on March 26, 2009, 03:51:30 pm
Trent Reznor on the whole thing. really good read:
Quote
As we approach on-sale dates for the upcoming tour, I\'ve noticed lots of you are curious / concerned / outraged at the plethora of tickets that somehow appear on all these reseller sites at inflated prices - even before the pre-sale dates. I\'ll do my best to explain the situation as I see it, as well as clarify my organization\'s stance in the matter.
NIN decides to tour this summer. We arrive at the conclusion outdoor amphitheaters are the right venue for this outing, for a variety of reasons we\'ve throughly considered*. In the past, NIN would sell the shows in each market to local promoters, who then "buy" the show from us to sell to you. Live Nation happens to own all the amphitheaters and bought most of the local promoters - so if you want to play those venues, you\'re being promoted by Live Nation. Live Nation has had an exclusive deal with TicketMaster that has just expired, so Live Nation launched their own ticketing service. Most of the dates on this tour are through Live Nation, some are through TicketMaster - this is determined by the promoter (Live Nation), not us. Now we get into the issue of secondary markets for tickets, which is the hot issue here. The ticketing marketplace for rock concerts shows a real lack of sophistication, meaning this: the true market value of some tickets for some concerts is much higher than what the act wants to be perceived as charging. For example, there are some people who would be willing to pay $1,000 and up to be in the best seats for various shows, but MOST acts in the rock / pop world don\'t want to come off as greedy pricks asking that much, even though the market says its value is that high. The acts know this, the venue knows this, the promoters know this, the ticketing company knows this and the scalpers really know this. So...
The venue, the promoter, the ticketing agency and often the artist camp (artist, management and agent) take tickets from the pool of available seats and feed them directly to the re-seller (which from this point on will be referred to by their true name: SCALPER). I am not saying every one of the above entities all do this, nor am I saying they do it for all shows but this is a very common practice that happens more often than not. There is money to be made and they feel they should participate in it. There are a number of scams they employ to pull this off which is beyond the scope of this note.
StubHub.com is an example of a re-seller / scalper. So is TicketsNow.com.
Here\'s the rub: TicketMaster has essentially been a monopoly for many years - certainly up until Live Nation\'s exclusive deal ran out. They could have (and can right now) stop the secondary market dead in its tracks by doing the following: limit the amount of sales per customer, print names on the tickets and require ID / ticket matches at the venue. We know this works because we do it for our pre-sales. Why don\'t THEY do it? It\'s obvious - they make a lot of money fueling the secondary market. TicketMaster even bought a re-seller site and often bounces you over to that site to buy tickets (TicketsNow.com)!
NIN gets 10% of the available seats for our own pre-sale. We won a tough (and I mean TOUGH) battle to get the best seats. We require you to sign up at our site (for free) to get tickets. We limit the amount you can buy, we print your name on the tickets and we have our own person let you in a separate entrance where we check your ID to match the ticket. We charge you a surcharge that has been less than TicketMaster\'s or Live Nation\'s in all cases so far to pay for the costs of doing this - it\'s not a profit center for us. We have essentially stopped scalping by doing these things - because we want true fans to be able to get great seats and not get ripped off by these parasites.
I assure you nobody in the NIN camp supplies or supports the practice of supplying tickets to these re-sellers because it\'s not something we morally feel is the right thing to do. We are leaving money on the table here but it\'s not always about money. Being completely honest, it IS something I\'ve had to consider. If people are willing to pay a lot of money to sit up front AND ARE GOING TO ANYWAY thanks to the rigged system, why let that money go into the hands of the scalpers? I\'m the one busting my ass up there every night. The conclusion really came down to it not feeling like the right thing to do - simple as that.
My guess as to what will eventually happen if / when Live Nation and TicketMaster merges is that they\'ll move to an auction or market-based pricing scheme - which will simply mean it will cost a lot more to get a good seat for a hot show. They will simply BECOME the scalper, eliminating them from the mix.
Nothing\'s going to change until the ticketing entity gets serious about stopping the problem - which of course they don\'t see as a problem. The ultimate way to hurt scalpers is to not support them. Leave them holding the merchandise. If this subject interests you, check out the following links. Don\'t buy from scalpers, and be suspect of artists singing the praises of the Live Nation / TicketMaster merger. What\'s in it for them?
--snip (links)--
* I fully realize by playing those venues we are getting into bed with all these guys. I\'ve learned to choose my fights and at this point in time it would be logistically too difficult to attempt to circumvent the venues / promoter / ticketing infrastructure already in place for this type of tour. For those of you about to snipe "it\'s your fault for playing there, etc... " - I know it is.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Gfunk on March 26, 2009, 03:42:08 pm
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672740386088613.html#articleTabs%3Darticle (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672740386088613.html#articleTabs%3Darticle) MARCH 11, 2009 Concert Tickets Get Set Aside, Marked Up by Artists, Managers ?By ETHAN SMITH Less than a minute after tickets for last August\'s Neil Diamond concerts at New York\'s Madison Square Garden went on sale, more than 100 seats were available for hundreds of dollars more than their normal face value on premium-ticket site TicketExchange.com. The seller? Neil Diamond.
Ticket reselling -- also known as scalping -- is an estimated $3 billion-a-year business in which professional brokers buy seats with the hope of flipping them to the public at a hefty markup.
In the case of the Neil Diamond concerts, however, the source of the higher-priced tickets was the singer, working with Ticketmaster Entertainment Inc., which owns TicketExchange, and concert promoter AEG Live. Ticketmaster\'s former and current chief executives, one of whom is Mr. Diamond\'s personal manager, have acknowledged the arrangement, as has a person familiar with AEG Live, which is owned by Denver-based Anschutz Corp.
Selling premium-priced tickets on TicketExchange, priced and presented as resales by fans, is a practice used by many other top performers, according to people in the industry. Joseph Freeman, Ticketmaster\'s senior vice president for legal affairs, says that the company\'s "Marketplace" pages only rarely list tickets offered by fans.
The vast majority of tickets are sold by the artists and their promoters with the cooperation of Ticketmaster. In fact, he says that for any concert to which Ticketmaster carries so-called platinum seats, the Marketplace sells only artist-sanctioned tickets, not those resold by fans.
Neil Diamond approved premium ticket sales on a Ticketmaster site. Though scalping tickets is legal in most states, the spiraling prices for tickets sold in the secondary market are frequently the target of ire from consumers, Congress and artists, all of whom say the practice takes advantage of fans while enriching third-party speculators.
Ticketmaster Chief Executive Irving Azoff said in an interview Tuesday that when ticket brokers resell tickets without permission from artists or promoters, it "drives up prices to fans, without putting any money in the pockets of artists or rights holders."
But Ticketmaster facilitates the secondary ticket market and profits from it. According to several managers of top artists and Ticketmaster executives, the company routinely offers to list hundreds of the best tickets per concert on one of its two resale Web sites -- and divides the extra revenue, which can amount to more than $2 million on a major tour, with artists and promoters.
These platinum seats are sold on Ticketmaster\'s TicketExchange, which describes itself as a marketplace for "fan-to-fan" transactions, using the slogan "Buy tickets. Sell tickets. It\'s that simple."
In addition to being Ticketmaster\'s CEO, Mr. Azoff also oversees the company\'s Front Line Management division, which handles the affairs of more musicians than any other competitor in the U.S. -- and represents Mr. Diamond. Ticketmaster is in the process of being acquired by concert promoter Live Nation Inc., an all-stock deal that is under intense regulatory scrutiny in part because it could affect competition in the music business, including the secondary ticket market.
Secondary ticket sales are viewed by Ticketmaster, concert promoters and artists as one of the biggest -- yet thorniest -- sources for revenue gains. In 2006, Ticketmaster launched TicketExchange in response to pressure put on its profit margins by secondary-ticket sellers such as StubHub. But in doing so, it opened the company to criticism by ticket brokers, fans and politicians, who accuse the ticketing giant of profiteering and obfuscation.
Ticketmaster is moving to distance itself from some parts of the secondary ticketing market. It is in the process of hiring an investment bank to try to sell another resale service, TicketsNow, according to people familiar with the matter.
Virtually every major concert tour today involves some official tickets that are priced and sold as if they were offered for resale by fans or brokers, but that are set aside by the artists and promoters, according to a number of people involved in the sales.
That includes recent tours by Bon Jovi, Celine Dion and Van Halen, and a current tour starring Billy Joel and Elton John. Spokesmen for Bon Jovi and Ms. Dion had no comment. A spokesman for Van Halen said that the band could not be reached. A booking agent for Messrs. Joel and John did not respond to requests for comment.
Tickets for a March 27 Britney Spears concert at Mellon Arena in Pittsburgh were priced earlier this week at $39.50 to $125 apiece on Ticketmaster.com. But some of those same classes of seats were being offered at the same time through the "TicketExchange Marketplace" for as much as $1,188.60. The link to the Marketplace page was marked, "Browse premium seats plus tickets posted by fans."
Ms. Spears\' spokeswoman declined to comment.
The ticket listings are offered in small batches, each at a price, such as $1,164.01, that mimics prices set via online auctions. After inquiries from The Wall Street Journal, the "tickets posted by fans" message was removed from the TicketExchange Web site. Prices also fell, narrowing the gap between Ticketmaster and TicketExchange Marketplace.
Tickets that do not sell at the inflated platinum prices can also be moved between TicketExchange and Ticketmaster\'s lower-priced main inventory, without any signal to consumers that the ticket\'s status has been reduced.
Ticket brokers complain that artists sell their own tickets for inflated prices but rarely admit doing so, thus avoiding the appearance of gouging fans. "It\'s not fair for artists to hide behind Ticketmaster-TicketExchange," said Paul McCann, a broker near Baltimore. Ticketmaster says it is working to clarify the origin of tickets on TicketExchange. "It\'s cloudy and has to be cleaned up," Mr. Azoff said.
Bruce Springsteen recently decried a recent incident in which his fans were directed without his permission from Ticketmaster to TicketsNow.com, which caters to ticket brokers.
"As a matter of policy we do not ever release tickets to the secondary ticket market nor do we ever accept payment from them," said his manager, Jon Landau. Ticketmaster has said the incident was a mistake.
Ticketmaster says TicketExchange shouldn\'t be considered scalping. It says the site\'s "goal is to give the most passionate fans fair and safe access to the best tickets."
In a meeting last May with more than 100 ticket brokers, Ticketmaster\'s then-chief executive, Sean Moriarty, acknowledged that the ticketing giant had used TicketExchange to sell 160 Neil Diamond tickets over two shows at marked-up prices.
"That\'s a choice up to Neil and management," Mr. Moriarty said. He did not respond to messages left on his cell phone requesting comment.
"It\'s our job to make our clients aware of every opportunity that exists," Mr. Azoff, who is Mr. Diamond\'s manager, said in an interview last year.
Testifying before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts and Competition Policy last month, Mr. Azoff said he believes the secondary market is currently flawed. "We agree that this model is broken," he told the panel, "and it needs a solution."
Write to Ethan Smith at ethan.smith@wsj.com
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on March 03, 2009, 01:20:52 pm
boombox; I have to disagree with you in part. I think the band and agency should be able to charge whatever they feel the market will allow. if paul mccartney thinks people will pay $1,000 to see him and he wants to charge that, go for it. The risk is though that you might not get as many people going to see you.
My problem continues not to be the bands or ticketmaster trying to get as much money as they think they\'re entitled to, but with them controlling the market, and our government doing nothing to break up what to me is a blatent anti-trust case. When that happens, they can charge whatever they want regardless of what the market can handle, because they hold all the cards. This leaves 2 options, 1, get enough people to stop going to shows and concerts to force them to change, or, 2, have the government intervine.
sadly I don\'t see either happening anytime soon, so I\'ll just go to less concerts or do like al and buy tickets at the venue / direct from artist.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: peaches626 on March 03, 2009, 12:49:54 pm
excellent.
I am smartening up.
Cheers!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Spacey on March 03, 2009, 12:42:31 pm
you can\'t be ser.
it means to chat, brah.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: peaches626 on March 03, 2009, 12:39:30 pm
boombox,
i may be exposing my newb-ness here, but, What is "chewing the fat"?
thanks, peaches
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: boombox on March 03, 2009, 07:51:43 am
Ticketmaster and all these agencies are money grubbing thieves - simple as that. There is no way they can legitimately charge the administration charges for tickets they sell. It is a highly immoral industry, which will only be taught a lesson if fans vote with their credit cards and don\'t buy tickets. Yes, you won\'t see your favourite band, but for some of the bigger shows, the fees are as much as I would willingly pay for a ticket and I can\'t justify that. Those of you with kids, in particular, can you?
Bands too have to share some of the responsibility - ticket prices are way too high in the first place. Based on the claculation earlier, if Phish pocket $30 a ticket after expenses, what sort of obscene amount will they get from a 20 thousand seater venue over two or three nights, let alone a tour? No band should be paid that much - whoever they are, not when their average fan might earn $20-30K a year.
I have recently passed on a number of tours in recent years - Neil Young, CSN, Genesis etc simply because the tickets are too expensive in the first place, let alone with the legalised robbery by ticket agencies.
To give an example, Neil Young\'s last tour, tickets (with fees) were just over $140. Added to that, I would need to spend $50 on transport (and the associated 7 hours travel in a day), plus the inevitable concert merch (always overpriced with big bands, but you want it, so...). So in all, not much change from $250, which to me is a lot for two hours entertainment and a tee shirt.
Compare this with the first leg of the last Jefferson Starship tour: Tickets: $90 (bought from the venue - $1.50 Paypal handling charge) This was for TWO shows over two nights (each of 2 hours plus), plus a download of the SBD recording from each night. Hotel room: $40 Transport: $50 Tshirt $20 Beer: $50 Video recording of both shows: FREE Assorted Chats with band: FREE Day out in London: FREE Chewing the fat with taper buddies: FREE
A bit more, but seems like a much better deal to me.
Have recently seen Arlo Guthrie for $25 and have Bridget St John, The Strawbs and Stackridge coming up - all at $15 a pop. Not big names, I know, but they will certainly offer value for money.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: skalnbyc on March 02, 2009, 07:55:02 pm
I\'m proud to announce I saved $80 in ticket fees by circumventing Livenation.com/going directly to the Fillmore box office yesterday. Ticket fees: what a frickin\' waste of money.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on March 02, 2009, 02:28:37 pm
Quote from: Dyed_Tie;219638
I dunno, for me I\'d rather watch MLB on TV any day of the week. I don\'t care how great of a game it is supposed to be. You can\'t see anything at a MLB game unless you are at field level and in a game of inches it really is annoying not being able to see that. I absolutely hate it when you are watching a game at home and there is a ball that is 3 inches out of the strike zone and the entire crowd is screaming like the umpire just maliciously stepped on a kitten. You can\'t see it! Where as i can see exactly what happened on the tube.
Really the price of admission for a sporting event is so that if something crazy does happen you can say, "I was at that game!" Yeah that\'s cool but usually you have to deal with traffic, rude people, and getting beer spilled on you. I can experience that at any frat party.
I couldn\'t disagree with you more. Having been lucky enough to be present for two perfect games and one pitch away from a 3rd, I would have to say that there is nothing in the world like going to see baseball live.
As for screaming at a pitch was either called or not, you can\'t tell me that you\'ve never done that in your life whether it\'s in person or when you\'re at home. The bottom line is that we\'re fans and we\'re going to get upset when a call doesn\'t go our way. The perfect example is Jeter\'s home run in the series against Baltimore back in \'96. Yeah, the ball was plucked before it could go in the stands, but would I give it back, no...
As for traffic - that\'s any event (except at the new Prudential Center. The parking lots are so spread out through Newark that it doesn\'t bottleneck); rude people and getting beer spilled on me - I have both happen to me at Breakfast shows, so what\'s your point?
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Spacey on March 02, 2009, 01:44:59 pm
interesting lunch reads indeed.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: SlimPickens on March 02, 2009, 01:22:32 pm
Interesting stuff on the TM/LN merger:
link (http://www.hitsville.org/2009/02/27/the-best-article-yet-on-the-ticketmasterlive-nation-merger-debate/)
Quote
As far as I can tell, the position as articulated by Rapino and Azoff in the press and before Congress is that they would like reality to be different for them. They would like the anti-trust laws to be relaxed, they?d like people to stop complaining about high ticket prices and just pay them, they want to sell tickets and scalp them, they?d like AEG to go away and they would like artists to stop asking for so much money.
Bill Wyman is also covering the hearings:
link (http://idolator.com/5161059/ticketmaster-ceo-concert-tickets-held-back-from-the-public-are-the-vast-majority-of-the-best-seats-in-the-house)
Quote
Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino said that he doesn\'t hear complaints about high ticket prices (man, those upper-management bubbles must be pretty thick!), that $50 isn\'t a high price for a concert ticket (not that he\'s had to pay for any in a while), and that Ticketmaster\'s service fees also get kicked back to venues and artists, causing Rep. Brad Sherman to respond, "They are forcing [Ticketmaster CEO Irving] Azoff to pretend like he\'s charging a lot when it\'s really coming back to you"; Azoff also said early in the hearing that "if our customers don\'t like [our service] they will go somewhere else." Like what, the movies?
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Wolfman on February 12, 2009, 10:00:34 pm
Quote from: NickNels;219640
I love going to ball games. Nothing better than getting out of work on Friday night and heading down to Shea. Grab a dog, a beer, and a $10 ticket before going in and enjoy the game from anywhere in the upper deck. For me it really doesn\'t get much better than that. I\'m not really interested in the inches that determine balls and strikes as much as the atmosphere of just being at the game.
I totally agree. What you describe is nice if you can get it. I love walking into Coors Field in Denver and getting a seat in the rockpile for $3 and just drinking and having a good time. If you can do the walk-up-and-pay-wicked-cheap thing at Shea too, great. It\'s a good time with friends and the game is secondary. The ticket is a breeze to get and it\'s cheap so the value is there. But it doesn\'t work like this in Boston. The cheapest ticket at Fenway is standing room for $25 and you can\'t even see half the field and you\'re crammed into a small area standing up the whole game. And this doesn\'t even matter because they\'re all sold out and selling for $40 on the secondary market. If you are lucky enough to be able to get a face value ticket, you\'re looking at $36 for bleachers, or $50-$125 for anything decent, then $7.50 a beer. The value isn\'t there, at least not to me. And if you get shut out when the tickets go on sale as most people do, you can double those prices and now you\'re really looking at some sorry value. But the key is, I don\'t get upset about it. I just choose not to go and accept that Red Sox tickets are mostly for the rich and connected and I am neither. Besides, to me this is just what it costs to have a good team, and i like having a good team. If I lived in Arlington or Seattle or San Diego or Denver or Baltimore or whatever, then I could walk up any time I want and get a cheap ticket and have a good time socializing and barely watching a lousy baseball game. I don\'t get that option here. Oh well.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: NickNels on February 12, 2009, 06:30:44 pm
I love going to ball games. Nothing better than getting out of work on Friday night and heading down to Shea. Grab a dog, a beer, and a $10 ticket before going in and enjoy the game from anywhere in the upper deck. For me it really doesn\'t get much better than that. I\'m not really interested in the inches that determine balls and strikes as much as the atmosphere of just being at the game. And playoffs...forget about it!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Dyed_Tie on February 12, 2009, 06:25:00 pm
I dunno, for me I\'d rather watch MLB on TV any day of the week. I don\'t care how great of a game it is supposed to be. You can\'t see anything at a MLB game unless you are at field level and in a game of inches it really is annoying not being able to see that. I absolutely hate it when you are watching a game at home and there is a ball that is 3 inches out of the strike zone and the entire crowd is screaming like the umpire just maliciously stepped on a kitten. You can\'t see it! Where as i can see exactly what happened on the tube.
Really the price of admission for a sporting event is so that if something crazy does happen you can say, "I was at that game!" Yeah that\'s cool but usually you have to deal with traffic, rude people, and getting beer spilled on you. I can experience that at any frat party.
Concerts on the other hand are different, but good venues are becoming few and far between as it is. I\'d rather go somewhere like Toad\'s than the effin\' Meadows or that armpit the Tweeter Center. Best bet is like what Wolf said, check out bands that aren\'t packing stadiums and go for theatres and rock clubs.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: kindm's on February 12, 2009, 06:04:26 pm
Quote from: tyzack;219573
I am constantly amazed at the fact that there are legitmate companies out there (Ace tickets in the boston area) whose entire business is ILLEGAL.
Since sclaping is illegal, putting those marketplace links seems to be encouraging criminal activities.
I don\'t think that the goverment would let budwiser send out adverstisement e-mails with links to people who sell pot.
It isn\'t even illegal. The biggest rule around the tri-stae area regarding tickets is that the ticket agency cannot sell tickets to folks in the same state as the agency. Yes I know this is a weird rule but it is what it is. So what do these guys do ? well they simply set up "affiliate" companies in all of the states. Basically they will say oh your in NY, oh ok our CT agency will sell you tickets even tho in reality thay are the same company.
many states have also recently relaxed the scalping laws. Probably at the request of TM / LN as they stand to make the most $$$ from lax laws now that they have their ebay of tickets.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 12, 2009, 11:05:55 am
Quote from: tyzack;219573
I am constantly amazed at the fact that there are legitmate companies out there (Ace tickets in the boston area) whose entire business is ILLEGAL.
Since sclaping is illegal, putting those marketplace links seems to be encouraging criminal activities.
I don\'t think that the goverment would let budwiser send out adverstisement e-mails with links to people who sell pot.
immoral != illegal.
laws vary from state to state, but most states don\'t give a ****.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: tyzack on February 12, 2009, 11:00:35 am
I am constantly amazed at the fact that there are legitmate companies out there (Ace tickets in the boston area) whose entire business is ILLEGAL.
Since sclaping is illegal, putting those marketplace links seems to be encouraging criminal activities.
I don\'t think that the goverment would let budwiser send out adverstisement e-mails with links to people who sell pot.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 12, 2009, 10:42:38 am
I found this interesting just now:
I get a weekly what\'s on sale email from ticketmaster for my area, and I laughted when I saw new kids on the block are on tour. Since pretty much EVERY woman I know my age was into them when they were popular I clicked on it just so I could forward the page as a link to some people.
simple enough.
the link that came off the email went directly to the "marketplace" tab which showed several groups of tickets ranging from $550 - $125 in price. Naturally, I assumed that this was the highway robery price a band such as this that tours once a decade is asking. But then I noticed that it was the Marketplace tab, and there was another "box office" tab next to it. So I clicked box office and sure enough, that was the normal page. Ah I said, they must be sold out, and that\'s why it brought me to the marketplace first.
But then I remembered who I was dealing with, so I searched for best available any price tickets.. and got middle of the floor front of soundboard for $50 each. These are better than some of the $500 "marketplace" tickets that the email link gave me.
point being, people like us that go to lots of shows and buy lots of tickets will notice this kind of thing and know how to move in the page to get real thing... But if someone wanted, say madonna at msg, or in this case nkotb at greatwoods and has not been to a concert in 10 years and saw a link like that they would have probably blindly bought the "best" tickets at $500 without knowing any better.
It\'s stuff like this that annoys the hell out of me about ticketmaster already, and I don\'t see a merger making get any better.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 12, 2009, 08:35:05 am
Quote from: Wolfman;219532
Of course, you might feel the total opposite, that the regular season ticket has fantastic value while the Game 7 ticket is hardly worth any more than the regular season ticket.
I agree and I disagree. I definitely think that "a" game 7, not "this" game 7 (which I wouldn\'t pay more than a ****-stained piece of toilet paper) might be worth paying a little more, but I personally feel like the ticket price for the regular season should be the ticket price for the post season. They are bleeding the fans.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Wolfman on February 12, 2009, 12:14:23 am
Quote from: Yoda;219452
Quote from: FrankZappa;219451
I\'d rather miss a big show than scalp for it, and I hate that ticket agencies exist as legal companies. That\'s my checks and balance though. Try like hell to get it, if you can\'t, damn, you can\'t go, oh well. :shrug:
:that:
Never pay over face is a totally legit way to go. I did that for years up until 2003. I encourage anyone who is on this program to just consider the possibility that certain monumental events, even paying over face, might be a better value than an average event at face.
I have several examples, but for Paul\'s sake I\'ll go with Game 7 of the 2007 ALCS. The face value of my seat in section 17 (good seat) was $125, I paid $200. This game in this seat at $200 is one of the best values I\'ve ever gotten on a ticket. The importance of the game needs no explanation and the gameplay itself was utterly riveting. It was easily worth twice what I paid for it. Now consider that the same seat at face value is $50 for all regular season games. I don\'t consider this a great value going in. Especially for your average home game, which is a sleepy weeknight affair against an average opponent like the Orioles. Sure you might get lucky and something truly exciting like an Ortiz walkoff or Jon Lester pitching a no-hitter might happen, but chances are you won\'t witness anything that you\'ll remember a year or two later. I don\'t think this seat is worth $50 for most regular season games. But it sure as hell was worth $75 over face for a huge game.
Of course, you might feel the total opposite, that the regular season ticket has fantastic value while the Game 7 ticket is hardly worth any more than the regular season ticket. That\'s a totally valid opinion. But all I can say is that ever since I dropped the never-pay-over-face paradigm and started very selectively choosing certain monumental events to pay over face for, I have been a much happier overall event-goer and I have no regrets about attending any of the events I chose. I would do them all again!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 11, 2009, 03:17:46 pm
your congressman man/woman for the house and senate. you can write anyone you want, but the only people who will give two **** about what you think are the ones who represent your district.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Gfunk on February 11, 2009, 03:03:56 pm
exactly. ^^^ Which people in congress should I contact to get maximum results?
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: kindm's on February 11, 2009, 01:28:17 pm
This is a bad idea for several reasons
Just like when Clear Channel controlled the venues and the radio etc etc. there were many many instances of them telling artists where they could and couldn\'t play. they would say sure you can play that venue but we won\'t book you in the sheds here here and here. They were using their HUGE influence in the market to dictate to artists etc who they could and couldn\'t do business with.
The samething is true for TM / LN. They have one of the largest artist management companies under their umbrella. They will also exclusively hold ticketing for these events, they also have multiple venues under their control
This is bad for business in general. They will continue to squeeze the smaller promoters right out of the business, they will control huge market share with no competition. This is bad for consumers as there will be no competition to drive costs down as well innovations.
I think the FTC is going to step in on this one. Especially after all the media attention with the Boss tickets. Schumer is getting in on the action as well.
This doesn\'t even touch the issue of a ticketing company that also owns the secondary market for ticket sales. They are double dipping. The easiest way for these companies to hedge their bets on tours will be the 2ndary market. Think of it this way. They have a really popular tour that is selling like gang busters but they also have a tour not doing so well. Well they will simply just divert more tickets to the 2ndary market as to recoup as much $$$ as possible to recover any potential losses. There is no cap on the 2ndary market, not only can they profit from the original sale of the ticket, they are also profiting on the fees associated with selling through their 2ndary market at the very least.
make a product, falsely create a shortage of said product, offer to charge a huge premium for the same product, profit.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: tyzack on February 11, 2009, 11:58:46 am
I have no problem with the merger from a fan-access point of view; I am appauled at it, and at all the other mergers recently that are basically forming monopolies with the green light from the SEC.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 11, 2009, 09:38:50 am
Quote from: FrankZappa;219451
I\'d rather miss a big show than scalp for it, and I hate that ticket agencies exist as legal companies. That\'s my checks and balance though. Try like hell to get it, if you can\'t, damn, you can\'t go, oh well. :shrug:
:that:
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 11, 2009, 09:31:33 am
my issue isn\'t the price they sell at and my ability to afford it.. much the same that I think there should be more than just democrats and republicans, I think you should have as diverse a setup as possible when it comes to anything, as I just don\'t like the potential of monopolies. I\'m all about breaking up the trusts because while what seth says is true and they can charge whatever they want, there needs to be a checks and balance set up. If you only have one company and they say hey, we\'re going to charge a 500% fee for you to purchase a ticket and that\'s the only place you can get tickets, you either need to decide not to go or suck it up. Do I feel entitled that I should be able to go to any show, any time? absolutely. Does it mean it will happen? nope. Furthermore, to each his own, but I don\'t scalp under any conditions. I\'ll resell rebuy tickets, but only at face.
I\'d rather miss a big show than scalp for it, and I hate that ticket agencies exist as legal companies. That\'s my checks and balance though. Try like hell to get it, if you can\'t, damn, you can\'t go, oh well. :shrug:
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Wolfman on February 10, 2009, 08:11:32 pm
From a price standpoint it doesn\'t matter who sells the tickets. You will pay for your passion to see your favorite bands and teams. It\'s your weakness and weakness is expensive, just accept it. Until they start building 250,000 seat arenas or having concerts on NASCAR tracks, demand will always far exceed supply for big acts. You can\'t complain about the nature of fundamental economics any more than you can complain about the sky being blue, or water being bland, or gravity pulling you down when you jump. I don\'t like TM or LN, but remember that they cannot possibly be ripping people off at any show that sells out. Fork over the dough or shut up. :) And here\'s a wild theory that I don\'t like to say and nobody wants to hear but it\'s probably true, think about this for a few minutes after your initial reaction passes: If there were no ticket company at all and every venue handled all their own tickets with their own rules...things would be much worse.
Yes, it hurts knowing that 18,000 people could afford the price and you couldn\'t. But do you complain that a Lexus is priced too high, or dinner at L\'Espalier? No, because we understand that these are luxury items for someone other than ourselves, yet we feel entitled to tickets. But tickets are no different. Tickets are luxury items, the playthings of the privileged so long as there is demand for them. Hey, somewhere someone is hurt knowing that you can afford food and clothing and they can\'t. Hopefully you\'re not them.
All you can do is hope that the new merged entity will have a better online system than LN did for Phish, and good customer service if you need it. As a monopolistic conglomerate, this new company is under no pressure to provide these things and thus they are unlikely to happen. Again, you will pay for your passion, this time in discomfort rather than dollars. Again, tough noogies. Suck it up or don\'t, but don\'t complain. You know what you\'re signing up for, there are no surprises. Sometimes I suck it up, sometimes I decide it\'s not worth it.
Just establish some guidelines for yourself so you never end up disappointed. Here are some of mine:
1. For the vast majority of the time, only get tickets to games or shows that you can buy with minimal effort at face value, and choose events that are easy to get to. (e.g. Umphrey\'s at House of Blues, Of Montreal at Paradise, New Britain Rock Cats, BU Hockey). 2. Be a fan of secondary leagues and bands, (e.g. The Breakfast, college or minor league sports, Major League Soccer) as they are easy to access and just as rewarding if you truly like them. 3. When going after a tough onsale, no getting disappoitned if you get shut out. (e.g. Red Sox, Phish) You can only treat it as a bonus if you get in, not as a downer when you get shut out. 4. Never pay over face unless the event fits one of the following: A. Quite reasonably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (e.g. Patriots in the Super Bowl) B. Monumental enough that you can reasonably assume before the event that any true fan would instantly be able to recall the details of the event for the rest of their life (e.g. Phish comeback in Hampton, any Game 7) 5. If either A or B applies and you can afford the event without incurring debt, grow a pair and **** do it no matter what the cost.
These are just what work for me, I\'m not saying everyone should do these. I would encourage everyone to take a look at #4 and establish your own parameters, it\'s a key question for all fanatical people such as us.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 10, 2009, 05:40:09 pm
Quote from: Spacey;219406
Everyone loves to **** but no one likes to take action.
write your congressman/woman
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: skalnbyc on February 10, 2009, 05:04:48 pm
Quote from: Spacey;219406
Stop buying tickets. The message will be sent. .
I skipped a show Saturday night because I did not think Ticketmaster\'s 50% premium upon the $20 ticket was reasonable. I\'ve got a bunch of shows to see coming up at The Fillmore and I\'m purposely going to visit their box office (maybe turn a bike ride into a ticket ride) to avoid $60 or more in fees.
Ticketweb generally charges $4-5 for fees on a $20 ticket and I do not balk at that.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Spacey on February 10, 2009, 04:32:48 pm
Stop buying tickets. The message will be sent.
The solution is simple. Getting people to follow the plan is not.
Everyone loves to **** but no one likes to take action.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: SlimPickens on February 10, 2009, 04:14:35 pm
yes. live nation is part of clear channel
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Gfunk on February 10, 2009, 03:17:51 pm
Quote from: SkyePrizm;219374
I feel like this is the merging of one giant evil empire.
Isn\'t live nation somehow affiliated with Clear Channel as well?
Quote from: siflandollie;219399
yea **** this. having one company with a total monopoly of live music ticketing is NOT a good thing.
I guess we\'ll just have to wait and see how this plays out but I have a bad feeling about it too.
Live Nation just needed a better website that could handle the large amounts of traffic that a band like Phish is capable of attracting. I\'m sure they could\'ve figured this **** out with out merging with Ticket bastard.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: stublatt on February 10, 2009, 03:07:37 pm
Quote from: Yoda;219369
Their best bet to discourage scalping at this point is charging more for their tickets
The sad reality of it all, I guess. Is this why Dead/Hartford - nosebleed seats behind the stage - are going for about $80???
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: siflandollie on February 10, 2009, 03:05:20 pm
yea **** this. having one company with a total monopoly of live music ticketing is NOT a good thing.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: NickNels on February 10, 2009, 02:34:08 pm
Quote from: Yoda;219369
But if ticket price set themselves at $100 as a standard, TM/LN is going to add another $15-$30 service charges and now people are being price-guaged when they want to go to a show.
That might be true, but it really doesn\'t make a difference. The tickets face value could be $5 with a $130 transaction fee...if supply meets demand at $130, then that\'s what they will be sold on-line for.
Quote
what i\'m saying is that price means nothing since you will never pay it. you pay that price plus whatever amount of fees TM/LN want to tack on to your order anyways.
Exactly, but again I don\'t think it matters where the line is drawn between ticket price and charges...as long as the tickets are being exclusively distributed through one ticket agency you are still paying the same amount.
There is a line that can be drawn somewhere between current face value and let\'s say the TicketsNow price that would discourage scalpers and people looking to make a buck on the secondary market. It\'s hard to gauge what that price tag would be for every band, but if LN would charge $120 (w/ fees) for Phish (for example), that would signficantly decrease demand during the on-sale date and subsequently in the secondary market.
This would of course hurt the average Phish fan who could not afford such a high price tag, but I don\'t think Phish can cater to that fan anymore. They have become too large to try to help out with reasonably priced tickets. It\'s a nice gesture, but again, they end up creating this secondary market for scalpers. Their best bet to discourage scalping at this point is charging more for their tickets
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: wildcoyote on February 10, 2009, 02:26:50 pm
Quote from: weekapaug19;219390
wonder how much phish actually gets out of the 49.50, maybe 20 bucks per ticket (I\'m guessing that is high)
The band usually receives about 60% of ticket price ($29.70 of the $49.50), but only pockets about 35% after expenses. ($17.32).
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: weekapaug19 on February 10, 2009, 01:59:45 pm
wonder how much phish actually gets out of the 49.50, maybe 20 bucks per ticket (I\'m guessing that is high)
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 01:56:07 pm
what i\'m saying is that price means nothing since you will never pay it. you pay that price plus whatever amount of fees TM/LN want to tack on to your order anyways.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: NickNels on February 10, 2009, 01:48:14 pm
Quote from: davepeck;219366
pure speculation. bands don\'t sell tickets at their own established price as it is. there hasn\'t been any such thing as "face value" for years. ****, i\'d rather pay $100 for a ticket that says $100 on it than pay that same amount for a ticket that just happens to say $70.
Of course it\'s speculation...nothing has happened yet. And band\'s absolutely have a say in the established ticket price. You don\'t think TM/LN would have had tickets going for a higher price if they set it? Phish is still able to set a reasonable price with tickets because there are still options with the venues they choose to play...albeit not much of a choice.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: wildcoyote on February 10, 2009, 01:21:20 pm
Quote from: davepeck;219375
I\'M SO PISSED!!!!!!
I\'m a fan of the enlarged font, but I would\'ve gone with red to convey a little more fist shaking scorn.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 12:49:53 pm
I\'M SO PISSED!!!!!!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: SkyePrizm on February 10, 2009, 12:48:00 pm
I feel like this is the merging of one giant evil empire.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: bdfreetuna on February 10, 2009, 12:35:49 pm
I see a lot more Breakfast shows in my future..
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 10, 2009, 12:19:54 pm
But if ticket price set themselves at $100 as a standard, TM/LN is going to add another $15-$30 service charges and now people are being price-guaged when they want to go to a show.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 12:04:10 pm
pure speculation. bands don\'t sell tickets at their own established price as it is. there hasn\'t been any such thing as "face value" for years. ****, i\'d rather pay $100 for a ticket that says $100 on it than pay that same amount for a ticket that just happens to say $70.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: NickNels on February 10, 2009, 11:54:55 am
They can start pricing tickets based on demand now. Phish and other large bands will not be able to sell tickets at their own established price...not if they want to play in a TM/LN venue. Tickets will start in the hundreds. Probably less expensive than scalped tickets, but more than the face value being charged now.
You will be able to gain access to tickets during the on-sale easier, but you will be paying for it.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: ds673488 on February 10, 2009, 11:48:02 am
i can only think that this is a good thing, larger company, probably easier to get tickets
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Spacey on February 10, 2009, 11:38:06 am
Great news!
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 10, 2009, 11:13:48 am
I am.... I was ready to actually spend money to see The Boss... My wife was trying to buy me tickets for my birthday... I\'m not as furious at the merger as I am at ticketmaster for being a bunch of money grubbing ****... I\'m mad as hell and I\'m not going to take it... I\'m going to have to settle for listening to someone\'s recording of the show several days after the fact... Thanks ticketmaster...
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 11:10:25 am
are you furious, ryan?
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 10, 2009, 11:04:40 am
Or they will send you to their own ticket broker to purchase tickets after telling you that they cannot process your order due to routine maintenance.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 10:59:51 am
i\'m not furious. there will be one company charging me inflated prices for tickets instead of two. and they\'ll probably actually let me purchase the tickets i have in my cart. big deal.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 10, 2009, 10:53:53 am
I don\'t know about you guys, but I was furious when I saw this. I hope it gets stopped as a trust. this is rediculous.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: Yoda on February 10, 2009, 10:46:11 am
Sorry, but after the whole "bait and switch" routine that Ticketmaster/Tickets Now pulled with Bruce tickets, I can\'t trust either of them, especially when they are one large monopoly.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: davepeck on February 10, 2009, 10:40:20 am
cool. here\'s hoping i never have to use LN\'s ticketing system ever again.
Title: ticketmaster and live nation merge in completely legal single firm
Post by: FrankZappa on February 10, 2009, 10:28:22 am
what.the.hell
Quote
BC-Live Nation-Ticketmaster,0216 URGENT Live Nation and Ticketmaster in merger deal Eds: Moving on general news and financial services. LOS ANGELES (AP) - Two of the biggest forces in the entertainment business are joining up. Concert promoter Live Nation Inc. and ticketing giant Ticketmaster Entertainment Inc. said Tuesday morning that they plan an all-stock merger of equals. The combined company will be called Live Nation Entertainment. Regulatory experts have said the deal could get delayed by an antitrust review. Ticketmaster sells tickets for more than 80 percent of the major arenas and stadiums in the U.S., according to concert tracking firm Pollstar. Live Nation is the world\'s No. 1 concert promoter and owns more than 140 venues. It has comprehensive deals to the tours of such artists as Madonna, Jay-Z, U2, Nickelback and Shakira - and recently developed its own ticketing service.
(Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)