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General Discussions => Tribal Funk Affliction => Topic started by: tmn8r1 on December 10, 2008, 08:04:29 pm
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wait.who???
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Joe Satriani and Coldplay are both terrible. Bad music ripping off bad music.
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My take is this, **** happens. I can name tunes i wrote that resemble a song, i do my best to make sure it doesn\'t, but its not always in a composer\'s control. If I never a heard a song before, and something i write is similar, what am i going to do. its pure coincidence. sometimes like they said with cryptomnesia a melody once heard can surface subconsciously - so that can be the case some of the time. now do i feel suing over an subconscious mistake is right - no - but legal precedent has been that you do. George Harrison, John Fogardy, Verve, etc didn\'t intentionally rip anything off. some people do intentionally rip off other peoples music. with joe and coldplay - i think it is purely coincidence but oh well - let a jury of their peers decide - tis the american process at work (so is suing but that is another topic). we can all name a bunch of tunes that are so similar it seems plagiarizing has taken place. maybe its a form a flattery :) just kidding. there are only so many notes to use, in so many rythmic patterns, over so many chords, and with the amount of people in this world writing original music daily, its bound to happen quite frequently if you ask me. only not everyone gets radio play and success so we don\'t even know how many cases of this cryptomnesia, plagiarizing, or musical synchronicities are actually being committed daily.
there is nothing new under the sun - its just being discovered.
the modern day composer refuses to die.
peace
damn longest post by tpalms ever?
I think someone is feeling guilty (and a little nervous) that synergy ripped off like 25 different songs.
Coincidence you say? Tell it to the jury!
hehehe j/k brah ;)
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I\'ve been thinking about this subject a lot lately. I find it pretty ironic that Joe Satriani sues Coldplay, and it turns out that both tunes resemble that Marty Balin tune. And who knows what dozens of songs that were written before that tune resemble and so on. Maybe this was a way for Joe to bring attention to himself which equals to more album sales for him.
I do agree with Tim that there are only 12 notes and coincidences are bound to happen, especially with simple, catchy melodies over diatonic chord progressions. But, I have no respect for artists who totally plagiarize other artists. Taking credit for someone else\'s work is despicable.
One example (which has been talked about in this thread) of such an act is Pearl Jam\'s "Given to Fly". I usually overlook this song because Pearl Jam is a great band with tons of original songs, but I can\'t see how this isn\'t plagiarism. Even the B section of the tune if I recall are pretty much the same. Led Zeppelin cant say **** about it because Jimmy Page was notorious for "borrowing ideas".
But there is certainly a difference between plagiarism and being inspired by an artist or band.
Musicians are usually music geeks, and musicians are influenced by the music they love. As a musician myself I have written songs or parts of songs (riffs, chord progressions, vamps....) that were influenced by certain bands or certain songs even. I remember reading that John Lennon said that "You\'ve Got to Hide Your Love Away" was totally inspired by Bob Dylan. I guess that\'s easy to see. Even the great Frank Zappa had had musical influences.
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Ever see that episode of Reno 911
(https://thebreakfast.info/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv623%2Fmadtv_viper%2FMADtv_Viper02%2FShowdown-Kennycomplete.jpg&hash=0f9dff3b33ce89e6e7a174208fe98c7b11f9d055)
Where Kenny Rogers is complaining that Lionel Richies song Lady is a rip off of his song Woman?
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coldplay sucks :vomit2:
:that:
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review board correct - either way - i say they duke it out in a ring with crushed glass gloves like kickboxer with jean claude van damme.
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from http://www.straight.com/article/coldplay-stone-cold-hit-machine
a few moments later, when asked what he and his band members have contributed to rock history, he admits they\'ve added nothing new.
In keeping with this conflicted self-regard, Martin last year told Rolling Stone that he reckons himself and his mates "incredibly good plagiarists", a claim supported by the songs on their most recent album, X&Y. When speaking of Coldplay, critics invariably return to the band\'s indebtedness to U2, pointing to Martin\'s grandly unsubtle oration, Buckland\'s chiming guitar tones, and Berryman\'s melodic bass playing. That\'s to say nothing of X&Y\'s more wide-ranging references; take, for example, "Fix You", which contains liturgical organ sounds ? la Radiohead, a swelling crescendo of guitars that recalls a toned-down Mogwai, and a locked-arm sing-along coda reminiscent of Manchester Britpop forerunners James.
Most startling of all the allusions on the album is to Johnny Cash, for whom Martin wrote the disc-ending "\'Til Kingdom Come", a sublimely faithful rendering of the country icon\'s vulnerable masculinity. More than anything else he\'s ever penned, that song suggests that Martin will only get better as his frame of reference expands.
"I think if you plagiarize from enough different places, you can get away with it," he claims of his serial thievery. "I\'m very glad to be a plagiarist. When you read about Bob Dylan, that\'s all he was doing, taking from old American traditions. I think that\'s the tradition in all oral and spoken arts-you just build on what came before. In music, there\'s only so many notes to play."
Martin is only half-right here; Bob Dylan (like all artists) is indebted to what came before him, but if he had not developed his own formal and narrative style-if he had not invested his music with something deeply personal-he would be nothing more than a historical footnote. As it stands, if Martin dropped dead tomorrow, he would be remembered for his two world-conquering hits ("Yellow" and "Clocks"), for his three successively more polished and consistent albums, and as the husband of Gwyneth Paltrow. Not bad, sure, but his musical accomplishments only hint at what his melodic gifts-which rate among the keenest in pop music\'s last 15 years-might one day yield, if only he allows himself to be challenged.
Coldplay is incredibly shallow music marketed for the masses and that a**hole has a lot of nerve comparing himself to Dylan.
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indeed indeed. Seems more likely that a review board will decide, not a jury of peers. I am not sure if these things require a formal jury trial. Oh well, there are only so many notes on the scale. Or are there more than we even realize??? muhaha
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My take is this, **** happens. I can name tunes i wrote that resemble a song, i do my best to make sure it doesn\'t, but its not always in a composer\'s control. If I never a heard a song before, and something i write is similar, what am i going to do. its pure coincidence. sometimes like they said with cryptomnesia a melody once heard can surface subconsciously - so that can be the case some of the time. now do i feel suing over an subconscious mistake is right - no - but legal precedent has been that you do. George Harrison, John Fogardy, Verve, etc didn\'t intentionally rip anything off. some people do intentionally rip off other peoples music. with joe and coldplay - i think it is purely coincidence but oh well - let a jury of their peers decide - tis the american process at work (so is suing but that is another topic). we can all name a bunch of tunes that are so similar it seems plagiarizing has taken place. maybe its a form a flattery :) just kidding. there are only so many notes to use, in so many rythmic patterns, over so many chords, and with the amount of people in this world writing original music daily, its bound to happen quite frequently if you ask me. only not everyone gets radio play and success so we don\'t even know how many cases of this cryptomnesia, plagiarizing, or musical synchronicities are actually being committed daily.
there is nothing new under the sun - its just being discovered.
the modern day composer refuses to die.
peace
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"do you know how i know you\'re gay? you listen to coldplay" --40 year old virgin
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smart move, satch
guess who\'s career just got a boost?
True! I love SATCH. Flying in a Blue dream is my fave.
Can\'t forget about Steve Vai, his prodigious student!
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if i was coldplay\'s guitarist, i\'d listen to that mixed version and think "damn why didn\'t i play it like that?"
that\'s what i was thinking too ha...and i like coldplay.
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smart move, satch
guess who\'s career just got a boost?
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But then the guy who invented the douche bag would sue Bono, and the whole vicious cycle, much like the wheel in the sky, would keep on turning.
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i would have thought Bono would be the first to sue Coldplay.
:point:
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coldplay sucks :vomit2:
Double :vomit2:
All their songs sound the same to me. Although, I don\'t have a musical bone in my body, so I could be wrong. But it all sounds like the same mush.
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i would have thought Bono would be the first to sue Coldplay.
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Wow, that Marty Balin video is so lame. I like the Airplane but what the hell happened to the guy? Nice feathered mullet! The guard should\'ve locked him in so he could get it on with his guitar.
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coldplay sucks :vomit2:
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And if John Fogarty can get sued (and lose) for plagiarizing himself, then nothing that happens in the music business should be surprising to anyone.
A little birdie told me that Fogerty actually won that case. But the fact that such a lawsuit would even be lent credence (:rimshot:) still validates my points.
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no, they just suck
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i dont think they stole anything
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so coldplay is unoriginal? I already knew this.
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Thanks for the link, Tim. Interested to hear what you (and other published songwriters on the board) think about this. I\'m sure anybody who has written an album\'s worth of material or more has both used something that they unintentionally "stole" and also heard something that was unintentionally "stolen" from them.
And if John Fogarty can get sued (and lose) for plagiarizing himself, then nothing that happens in the music business should be surprising to anyone.
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WTF, I Just read that article and it seems like Marty Balin could sue Coldplay and Joe Satriani.
Coldplay sucks
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Maybe Joe will sue matt o next, for stealing his look.
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see, that\'s why it pays to have EVERY SHOW YOU PLAY RECORDED! audio proof of what and when the breakfast came up with, show by show. One more win for the tapers. :lol:
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http://stereogum.com/archives/video/chris-martin_010457.html (http://stereogum.com/archives/video/chris-martin_010457.html)
As you might have heard, Coldplay have a new record called Viva La Vida, Or Death And All His Friends and a song and iTunes commercial of almost the same name. It\'s pretty common for people to say this or that Coldplay song sounds like Radiohead or U2, but Creaky Boards? There\'s a Brooklyn band with that name whose vocalist and songwriter Andrew Hoepfner claims Chris Martin saw them perform "The Songs I Didn\'t Write" at CMJ 2007, then ripped it off in "Viva La Vida." Creaky Boards made a video to bring their claims to light and YouTube.
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TIM PALMIERI sues YANGWIE MALMSTEEN.
Tim complained,
"He uses the same notes I do!"
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hell if blues musicians had the money and power to sue in the 60\'s led zeppelin never would have gotten off the ground. You can always argue things like this for chord progressions. Take wish you were here, move it up a whole step and strum instead of picking and you have wonderwall. frank zappa wrote variations on the super secret santana chord progression. Pearl jams given to fly is the same as led zeppelins going to california. The pearl jam song soon forget is a blantent rip off of one of the who\'s songs for ukulele. The estate of John Cage sued someone for re-recording a sample of his 4\'33 piece, which is absolute silence for 4:33. Yup, someone had a pause of silence on an album and they tried to say it was a sample. etc, etc, etc
The thing that makes this different is that they have not only the same tempo and chord progression, which is bad but happens all the time, but that they have the same melody as well. They should get the same thing that happend to the verve for stealing the stones orchestral music to make bittersweet symphony... give 100% of royalites from the song to joe.
Good for joe, get what\'s coming to you. I think things like this are going to become more and more common with the technology of iphones to identify songs. They\'ll "mis-identify" something, and people will start making correlations between what they thought the song was and the iphone thought it was and the list is going to become huge.
Also, surfing with the alien is an awesome album. Joe rocks. go find a copy of a g3 concert and drool.
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if i was coldplay\'s guitarist, i\'d listen to that mixed version and think "damn why didn\'t i play it like that?"
that being said, in this day in age, i don\'t see why its preposterous for two musicians to "write" the same chord progression. so i chalk it up to coincidence.
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wait.who???
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http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2008/12/07/216213.aspx