Sure, he makes many valid points, many of which I can agree with wholeheartedly.  But the Umphreys comments "Can\'t sell out The Key Club in L.A." and "They have ZERO buzz...." sort of irk me.  L.A., hmmm, believe it has a large Metal scene.  Remember all those great (LOL) metal bands of the \'80\'s and \'90\'s with big hair, makeup and ridiculous clothing?  A bunch of talentless ass kissing wannabe rock stars who did whatever the record companies wanted them to do.  They sold their souls to be poplular.  Is this what musicians should strive to be like?  And on the "Zero buzz......without good to great vocals you will not sell and appeal to a large audience.  No audience, no sales."  Yeah, get a singer and we\'ll make these guys popular and ride them all the way to the bank.  I guess that instrumental bands don\'t count at all.  Spoken like a true money grubbing capitalist with a penchant for becoming a future record company executive.  I do believe that Umphreys is playing main stages at mostly all of the festivals they are playing this summer.  "Zero buzz...."  hmmm.

And the John Mayer comments.  This is totally against what music is supposed to be.  I strongly believe that music is a form of art and should be treated as such.  It\'s mentalities such as this, as much as they help, have also helped to ruin the music industry.  Money, Money, Money.  Yes, it does make the world go around, but at what cost?  I feel that if a band can continue to make music, do it their way and make a living off of it, more power to them.  I believe it\'s called integrity.  No, it doesn\'t work for most bands, but personally I have more respect for a band that tried to do it their way and failed than allow the corporate world to strip the music of its soul and artistry for the sole purpose of capitalism.  

As the senior member of .info (at least I think I am), these are tenets which I strongly believe in and have shaped my musical tastes and listening habits for the last 35 years.  Two words, creativity and talent is what determines what I enjoy to listen to.  Thanks to Joe for keeping this one alive.  Comments?

Why would my comment "sort of irk" you? Yes the metal scene has been large in LA since the 80\'s. But what is wrong with that? The Crue through some of the best parties back in the day just north of The Strip. They did what they had to do to make with the help of Doc. Without his help or guidance they would not have made it to where they are today.

Google Doc McGee and just read about the impact he had on the band. Behind every great band is a great team and manager. The bands who make it, run their organizations like corporations.  

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"They sold their souls to be popular."

That is just a myth among the thousands who have never made it. They did what it took to make it. Bottom line.

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"I guess that instrumental bands don\'t count at all."

Nope, they do not sell enough records to justify the cost and time spent marketing and promoting their records. However, there are some great instrumental records that I enjoy.

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"I do believe that Umphreys is playing main stages at mostly all of the festivals they are playing this summer.  "Zero buzz...."  hmmm."

Has Umphreys headlined a Live Nation or AEG Festival this summer? Nope! There name never came up once in the conversations for putting together certain "major" festivals this summer.  Buzz bands got on the bill, because they had buzz..... The festivals they are playing are low on the totem pole.

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John Mayer did what he had to do and now he is putting out the music he wants with the support of Aware/Columbia. His last album was really good if you have not listened to it yet. Not to mention he puts on a great live show.

With Rick Rubin running Columbia now with his American team, it will be interesting to see if he produces John\'s next album. That would be a work of art.

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Two words, creativity and talent is what determines what I enjoy to listen to.

Enjoy the music and let us run the business.

I found it interesting to discover that John Mayer told this sound guy that he considered his early music to be "sell-out material" which was aimed at pleasing those guys. (You know, them.) He said that his last album was the only one which he recorded for himself, as true artistic expression.

not for nuthin but I really like his most recent album and his trio live album.

John Mayer did what he had to do and now he is putting out the music he wants with the support of Aware/Columbia.

that\'s what I always say when people are surprised that I listen to his latest.

His last album was really good if you have not listened to it yet.

:that:

With Rick Rubin running Columbia now with his American team, it will be interesting to see if he produces John\'s next album. That would be a work of art.

:that: :thumbsup:  Rick Rubin is the man, his efforts on johnny\'s (cash) last albums were amazing.

Quote from: TreyChica;147436

Bands can be comfortable without sucking the teet of the music industry. Jambands like Umphrey\'s, moe. and Bisco are perfect examples. Are they millionaires? Probably not. Do they more or less have full creative control of their output, and make a living off of doing what they love the most. YES! Is that all that should matter??? YES!!

Trey, "you" are flat wrong. Without the music industry, there would be no jamband scene. Have you ever thought about who distributes the music you listen to you? Or who owns the venues that you see music in? All of these companies are apart of the industry in one form or another.

"Jambands like Umphrey\'s, moe. and Bisco are perfect examples. Are they millionaires? Probably not."

Not even close!!!! How many times have you heard their music on a TV show or in a movie? More then likely zero. So their Music Publishing is not making them what it could. Mainstream consumers want short hip songs that sell. These bands DO NOT make that type of music; hence they will never have the mainstream appeal or the bank account to match it.

There are a lot of major label bands that I work with everyday that have artistic control. Just look at Kelly Clarkson, she wrote her new album and had control over it. The Old Man could not even stop her. Even though he slammed her on Idol.

Bottom line is that Jambands are not mainstream bands. They are a sub-culture that has little to no impact on my bottom lines. Be a fan and enjoy the music. Just do not look for the success that you want them to have.

yeah, you still don\'t get it.  Sure it\'s a give and take between the industry and growing bands. But my point is MONEY should not be the driving force in playing music for a living.  As far as I\'m concerned those jambands who don\'t chart on your fabricated radar of bullshit are success stories because live music is their career. Plain and simple. They have great management and booking.

YOU want to sell records. YOU look at them as buzzwords to throw around at your overpriced, psuedo Spago luncheons. I look at them as artists.  They want to play live music for a living and release an album because it\'s THEIR creation, not YOURS.

Also, Umphrey\'s song "Uncle Wally" was featured as background music on Alias. Do your research.

That is all. That is all. That is all.

Quote from: OMC;147540

Not even close!!!! How many times have you heard their music on a TV show or in a movie? More then likely zero.

Using that logic, I\'d have to say "Psychedelic Breakfast" "made" it then.

And while most of your points have been good and insightful, I just don\'t see how "making it" as anything to do with making millions of dollars. Not all people are money hungry ****, ya know. My definition of seeing this band "make it" has nothing to do with them making millions of dollars with their music; but more or less being allowed to make a comfortable income, enough to live on, based on doing what they love to do; whether or not they feel the same is irrelevant because you continually say that ALL of us fans in this "community" want them to "make it" as in being multi-millionaires, and that couldn\'t be further from the truth.

Really though, I am a graphic artist by trade, I love to do it (sometimes), does that mean I need to be the next Michaelangelo of the digital world and make millions of dollars to have "made it" in that industry? I\'d have to say **** no. As long as I am making a fair enough wage that allows me to comfortably support me and my family (hypothetically since I am not married with kids and don\'t have a family yet), and I am happy doing what I am doing, and I have a happy family who supports my career, I\'d have to consider myself as "making it".

Amen.

Leith I\'m not ignorant, I know the difference between generating enough cash to have an operation like moe. as opposed to the cash cow names he\'s throwing at us.  Sure a band produces a record to make money. But that ISN\'T the sole reason. Oh, and I never said an artist has to be poor to make good art. I said as long as they make enough to support them and their family doing what they love. You completly missed my point.

Leith I\'m not ignorant, I know the difference between generating enough cash to have an operation like moe. as opposed to the cash cow names he\'s throwing at us.  Sure a band produces a record to make money. But that ISN\'T the sole reason. Oh, and I never said an artist has to be poor to make good art. I said as long as they make enough to support them and their family doing what they love. You completly missed my point.

Joe. When have I ever accused you of being ignorant? I just think your wording was confused then.
I get what you mean and in that sense The Breakfast are a perfect example.
They make a living doing what they want and playing when they want. There is no incentive for them to actually work towards anything bigger when they are comfortable with the life they have now.

Okay - I want to chime in with my two cents on the whole OMC thing.  I\'ll first disclaim that I haven\'t been to a show in over 4 years, but am a fan of the music, so take what I say for what you will.

- I agree with OMC that this is and should be about money.  Enjoying what you do is one thing, but once you have a family, having fun needs to take a backseat to supporting your family.  I don\'t know the bands personal finances, but I\'m guessing that playing 2-3 bar shows a week won\'t pay the rent/mortgage for the three of them.  This might also be the reason why Jordan left the band - just my opinion.

- I remember speaking with some people who shall remain nameless at the 2nd Uncle Sam Jam that the band really needed to start doing something or else they were going to end up like Max Creek, big in CT, but no where else.  They seemed to have some lift after a few good festivals, but it seems like their balloon lost some air.

- Would you say that the band wants to be the next Grateful Dead or Phish, I would say why not.  Those are the best two examples of jam bands that were successful.  Do you think that they didn\'t have to do a little ass kissing or make song that fit the radio format?  Of course they did those are the songs you hear, not the 1/2 ambient jam that follows a 5 minute Rock and Roll.  I personally don\'t think that every song needs to be able to be jammed, I\'ve always had that gripe.

Okay, I\'ve got my reality comments out of the way.  Do I want to see the band succeed, YES.  Do I think that they can, YES.  All three of them are talented musicians, but maybe they need to look at some of the constructive criticism that OMC provides and think long and hard on how they want to help themselves succeed.