Toad\'s Place Richmond - Dunzo Already?

Toad\'s Place Richmond - Dunzo Already?
Posted by davepeck on 13 Mar, 2009 10:52
http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/TOADGAT13_20090312-214804/230440/#When:01:48:38Z

Quote
Owner: Won?t be involved with Toad?s Place any longer

By Melissa Ruggieri

Published: March 12, 2009

Monday\'s closing of Toad\'s Place shocked Charles Joyner as much as it did area music fans.

The principal investor in the venue on the Canal Walk said when he found out four days ago that the locks had been changed and a legal notice posted at the club, the events were completely unexpected.

Joyner said today that his investment group, Turning Point Development, has no intention of being involved with the venue any longer. So the business will remain closed.

"We do owe rent. There\'s no question about that," Joyner said in an exclusive interview. "But that was a known issue. We had been cooperating with the landlord [Fulton Hill Properties] since the fall of\'08 to continue on with the project, to try to make it better, to raise it to a level where it was bringing in a revenue that would support the rent. . . . But the cooperation broke down rather abruptly last week, unbeknownst to me."

Margaret Freund, owner of Fulton Hill Properties, said she had no choice but to shutter the building, which opened in June 2007 and has attracted hundreds of top name concerts.

"There may have been things that Charles was thinking that weren\'t being communicated to the landlord," she said. "At the end of the day, they pretty much forced us to do what we did. We\'re not in the position to subsidize his business."

Both Joyner and Freund declined to say how much money was owed.

Joyner points to several factors that restricted Toad\'s success.

The venue, he said, was never intended to be used strictly for live music, but instead to co-exist as a dance club.

An incident in late September, during which the NAACP accused the venue of discrimination for canceling some urban-oriented events -- a misunderstanding that was quickly resolved by both sides -- left a bruise on Toad\'s reputation.

"What struck me about that situation was the viral spread of poorly founded information," Joyner said. "But once it gets going, you can hardly stop it."

That fall, substantial rap acts including Nelly and Mos Def, already had been booked to perform at the venue. Joyner believes that since those artists had done well in other markets, the negative impact of the NAACP incident was the reason only about 500 people attended each show in a venue that can accommodate 1,500.

"That shaved off quite a slice of potential shows we could get in the future," he said.

Next month, however, had looked to be one of the nightspot\'s strongest schedules, with sellouts for pop singer Lady GaGa and indie songstress Neko Case.

Joyner said some shows could be moved to The National; sources at that venue couldn\'t confirm plans tonight.

The future for Toad\'s Place is also undecided.

Building owner Freund said she\'s received calls from several interested parties; some want to retain it as a music venue and others to use the space differently.

Joyner said he\'s experiencing a range of emotions.

"I\'m a little relived at some of the finality of it, but the loss of such a great spring run of events is pretty painful," he said. "That was a culmination of so much effort and it didn\'t have to go the way it did."

#1 Reply
Posted by Spacey on 13 Mar, 2009 11:05
Wow.

Sad and abrupt ending to that.

#2 Reply
Posted by jking on 13 Mar, 2009 11:24
wow, i hadn\'t heard anything about that at all.... of course, my main richmond music biz buddy is an investor with the national, so i\'m not terribly surprised he hasn\'t said anything yet...

#3 Reply
Posted by wildcoyote on 13 Mar, 2009 11:32
This sucks. I\'ve never been in a finer club. Take everything wrong with the New Haven site- make it PERFECT, and that\'s what you had.

However, they were at a huge disadvantage down there. Most of the acts Toad\'s New Haven gets are passing through town anyway. Richmond just doesn\'t see anywhere near that traffic, and it made booking acts a tough sell.

#4 Reply
Posted by Spacey on 13 Mar, 2009 11:34
Quote from: wildcoyote;222921
This sucks. I\'ve never been in a finer club. Take everything wrong with the New Haven site- make it PERFECT, and that\'s what you had.

However, they were at a huge disadvantage down there. Most of the acts Toad\'s New Haven gets are passing through town anyway. Richmond just doesn\'t see anywhere near that traffic, and it made booking acts a tough sell.

Doesn\'t sound like Toad\'s Place qualified the location. Not too much planning.

#5 Reply
Posted by wildcoyote on 13 Mar, 2009 11:42
Quote from: Spacey;222923
Quote from: wildcoyote;222921
This sucks. I\'ve never been in a finer club. Take everything wrong with the New Haven site- make it PERFECT, and that\'s what you had.

However, they were at a huge disadvantage down there. Most of the acts Toad\'s New Haven gets are passing through town anyway. Richmond just doesn\'t see anywhere near that traffic, and it made booking acts a tough sell.

Doesn\'t sound like Toad\'s Place qualified the location. Not too much planning.

It was franchised by 2 Yale alums living in Richmond. They paid New Haven an upfront fee, and small %\'s annually but New Haven had very little to do with decesions made in VA.

#6 Reply
Posted by Spacey on 13 Mar, 2009 11:48
Quote from: wildcoyote;222926
Quote from: Spacey;222923
Quote from: wildcoyote;222921
This sucks. I\'ve never been in a finer club. Take everything wrong with the New Haven site- make it PERFECT, and that\'s what you had.

However, they were at a huge disadvantage down there. Most of the acts Toad\'s New Haven gets are passing through town anyway. Richmond just doesn\'t see anywhere near that traffic, and it made booking acts a tough sell.

Doesn\'t sound like Toad\'s Place qualified the location. Not too much planning.

It was franchised by 2 Yale alums living in Richmond. They paid New Haven an upfront fee, and small %\'s annually but New Haven had very little to do with decesions made in VA.

Should I have said TP-VA to clarify?

#7 Reply
Posted by jking on 13 Mar, 2009 12:01
another major problem they had, was that in the same year two other new music venues opened, in addition to the 4 or 5 already there. and actually, richmond gets a greater variety of mid-level acts than dc does. but there are just too many places there. someone had to fail.

#8 Reply
Posted by skalnbyc on 13 Mar, 2009 14:50
Quote from: davepeck;222901
An incident in late September, during which the NAACP accused the venue of discrimination for canceling some urban-oriented events -- a misunderstanding that was quickly resolved by both sides -- left a bruise on Toad\'s reputation.

I hate the race pimps known as the NAACP - blame anything/everyhting on racism.

#9 Reply
Posted by Spacey on 13 Mar, 2009 15:18
Quote from: alexanderzurflu;222961
Quote from: davepeck;222901
An incident in late September, during which the NAACP accused the venue of discrimination for canceling some urban-oriented events -- a misunderstanding that was quickly resolved by both sides -- left a bruise on Toad\'s reputation.

I hate the race pimps known as the NAACP - blame anything/everyhting on racism.

This statement is completely racist and hurtful.

#10 Reply
Posted by FrankZappa on 13 Mar, 2009 15:21
so am I the only one who mis-read this and thought a group of people who live in richmond owned toads new haven and that one had closed? I was all confused for a few minutes there.

me = dumbass

#11 Reply
Posted by SlimPickens on 13 Mar, 2009 16:00
Quote from: alexanderzurflu;222961
Quote from: davepeck;222901
An incident in late September, during which the NAACP accused the venue of discrimination for canceling some urban-oriented events -- a misunderstanding that was quickly resolved by both sides -- left a bruise on Toad\'s reputation.

I hate the race pimps known as the NAACP - blame anything/everyhting on racism.

not surprised by this statement.

#12 Reply
Posted by spance on 13 Mar, 2009 17:05
Quote from: FrankZappa;222964
so am I the only one who mis-read this and thought a group of people who live in richmond owned toads new haven and that one had closed? I was all confused for a few minutes there.

me = dumbass

No...I thought the same thing too.

#13 Reply
Posted by JSleeper240 on 13 Mar, 2009 21:23
I saw Ween there!

#14 Reply
Posted by Drew_Kingsley on 14 Mar, 2009 09:19
I\'m in Richmond, where Yale is not playing baseball due to the weather, until tomorrow night. Not that I know the ins and outs of this city, but it certainly seems like there is nothing to do.