-
Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254692Quote
* Most Americans will be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer, a government program or by buying their own. Those who refuse will face fines from the IRS.
You had me until this part. I\'m not sure who will fall into the "buying their own" sector, but I do know that if I don\'t want to pay for health insurance, it\'s not because I have a bunch of extra money to pay fines with.
haha right? what happens when these (most likely) poor people don\'t pay the fines? lock them up? -
-
it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
-
-
Quote from: jking;254691
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up? -
-
Quote from: zuke583;254695Quote from: jking;254691
the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up?
it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing. -
-
Quote from: Vassillios;254687
I don\'t know how i feel about this yet. Until it affects me, I have no opinion. Yes, I\'m selfish like that.
Well, if you are like my husband and I, it will affect you soon. Anyone who has beyond excellent exceptional medical, usually members of unions (police, fire, teachers, etc), are going to get an extra tax..... which is unfair in so many ways. So since my husband works a good job with great benefits, we have to pay for people who are a) lazy b) ignorant or c) just have bad benefits. Seems unfair. Very communist.Quote from: Vassillios;254698Quote from: zuke583;254695Quote from: jking;254691the national debt will actually be decreased by 1+ trillion dollars over time
Quote from: Mamalakabubadaya;254694it\'s only another ~$900 billion we will put on our tab. what is the big deal?
and according the WP, my taxes don\'t change
how does this all add up?
it doesn\'t. we will be in super-debt. rich will pay a shitload. poor do nothing.
actually, middle to upper middle class will end up paying **** loads.
per norm, middle class screwed over while the lower class who already collect way too many benefits get **** loads of more benefits that they will waste.Quote from: Yoda;254631Obama was going to do what he had to do to get this passed no matter what the American public feels about it... It\'s just a shame that no one listens to the people anymore...
exactly, yoda. this was going to happen whether people argued or not. Obama will feel the heat in about two years when he\'s not re-elected. -
-
wow, someone who agrees with me here!
-
-
Quote from: krispy;254711
wow, someone who agrees with me here!
i\'m pretty peeved about this whole thing. I think overall the majority of the country was very uneducated about what this bill actually is. nancy pelosi and her propaganda trying to compare this to the civil rights movement makes me want to vomit. Clips of her saying that this bill will prevent diabetes. Hello?? nancy, diabetes is genetic. The government can\'t stop me from gorging on candy and getting sick. A bill will not do that. Idiots.
And for people who think this won\'t affect you, it will. oh it will. maybe not today, but in like 5-10 years. Or when you are seniors.
but in any case, it seriously was out of our hands to control. the only way we can stand up and let them know it was wrong is not to re-elect people in the coming years who voted for this mess. -
-
you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?
-
-
Quote from: jking;254716
you know that the majority of the country actually is for this, and mainly just fox news who said they weren\'t, right?
most people i know and talk to (reps, dems, and mostly independents) are not for this. spin machine works on both sides. cnn and msnbc and fox all have polls to show the opinion they want. you need to look up unbiased polls and it shows.... as a country...we are not for or against this. we are undecided. Which to me is a huge red flag saying: UH OH.
CBS did a newspoll this weekend:
When asked how the reforms will affect the health care system, 29 percent of respondents said "Better" and 34 percent said "Worse." But 28 percent said they didn\'t know enough. And when asked if they understood the reforms, 54 percent of respondents said they were confusion, only 42 percent said they understood what\'s in the bill.
To me, that\'s scary ass stuff ^^^ -
-
Because of how we have structured our healthcare over the past 50 years YOU pay 7 times more for it then people of other industrialized nation.
In 2000 the World Health Organization ranked the US health industry 36th.
You\'re paying more and getting less. If you\'re ok with this, then keep arguing for the status quo.
This transition is going to be difficult, things will constantly need to be revised.
The Swiss went through a similar transition in 1994. If you\'re sick of listening to the Bullshit talking points from both sides of this argument and want to see a real interesting look at alternates to our system. Watch
Sick Around the World, it\'s available online, through PBS frontline.
Here\'s a graph for Flounder to sit on:
-
-
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please. -
-
Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254720
I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
While I\'m happy that we\'re moving forward with this reform process, I totally agree with you. -
-
so, skye, you (correctly) argue that people don\'t know enough about the bill, then argue that they\'re right to not want it. perhaps if they actually knew more about it, more would be for it?
per a usa today poll from today, 49% favor the bill, 40% oppose. not how it was handled, not how it will affect, just straight favor/oppose. most people favor. most are worried, also, that its done correctly in the long run, but most actually are for this. that\'s what i was getting at. your conversations with people are what\'s called \'anecdotal evidence\'. coming from a background in politics, i can assure you that anecdotal evidence is never accurate. whether its due to people wanting to not ruffle feathers or personal bias on the part of the listener, its never good information. blind/anonymous polls are the only way to get decent info.
this isn\'t meant to be a bashing post, btw, i fully respect that many people are afraid of this bill. i\'m sad that all sides (pols and media) have used scare tactics and hyperbole to get attention. i mean, the republicans got almost everything they wanted in this bill and yet were still obstructionist. the dems caved on all the provisions that would have been most helpful. and the media pushed whatever inflammatory angle they could to get ratings. this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics. -
-
Quote from: jking;254723
this entire \'debate\' was a travesty that shows all the weaknesses of our current system of politics.
this is something we can agree on!
I really feel like before we make bills that will change our country, we need to have a political reform of the way our country is run.Quote from: Drew_Kingsley;254720I don\'t like the fact that the Dems used a provision that bypasses the need for a two-thirds majority.
Yes, the Republicans used this under W. for some war-related stuff, but that\'s not the issue, because it doesn\'t make it right. I don\'t understand why we even have a two-thirds majority rule if we can bypass it whenever we damn well please.
very wise, Drew. And very true. -
-
Shake up the ****, it\'s all a mess anyway!
It\'s NOT about health care reform, it\'s about having the POWER the POWER the POWER to make changes!
Passing this bill is a strong statement against those power hungry, greedy **** who do
everything for their own self interests. They don\'t give a **** about the PEOPLE!
Obama is for the people, which is US! Obama is trying to break up this arrogant,
self serving, self centered, vicious group of political **** who claim to be AMERICANS.
Get with the program people! The Bush administration was the WORST group of **** up
pieces of political garbage to ever run our country. They want their POWER back!
Please stand by our PRESIDENT! He is a very intelligent, aware man!
He wants the BEST for all of us! There is so much to go up against!
It will take MANY years to work out the MESS of George and friends. -