Author Topic: All 3 NYPD Officers Aqcuitted of All Charges in Sean Bell Murder (Read 2340 times)

Yoda · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:05:25 pm »

Where did all the Serpico(s) go?

SkyePrizm · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:16:30 pm »

Quote from: kindm\'s;187441

Quote from: SkyePrizm;187438
Quote from: kindm\'s;187419
that whole undercovers don\'t care about this and that is utter nonsense. Cops will bust you plain and simple. If they can get a collar they will take the collar. Hippies maybe harmless but they are also an easy bust. Which is why we still see all the pot busts we do

Cops lie and make **** up all the time. the only problem is that they rarely get caught doing it. because other cops keep quiet or help construct the lie and the judges always take the word of a cop over anyone.

if you ever see me at a show, come over and talk to the guy that is sometimes with me. He\'ll show you his badge, debate, and make convo with you...be ever so pleasant and be nice to you. Might even buy you a shot. And thats where my opinion on that whole "who cares about busting hippies" comes from. Cause thats his opinion. He has bigger fish to fry. He doesn\'t care you are all high and smoking at shows. You are harmless. You aren\'t hurting anyone. So why would he hurt you all? He likes good music just like anyone else. Maybe its a rare opinion. But i know it does exist for some, including him.

Oh, and that last statement, all cops don\'t lie. You can say almost anything bad about any profession. However, its much easier to pick on the cops, right? Attorneys all lie. Doctors are all scam artists. Priests are all abusers. I\'ll could go all night...

They are only human. They have one of the most thankless jobs. Everyone is always ready to attack....and those same people are the ones that will quickly dial 911 when in trouble....

Sorry but I guess we can agree to disagree. I come from a law enforcement family. Sure there maybe great cops, but from my experience they are the exception. And until they start turning in their brothers who pull all the bullshit they are just as guilty.

He might not care but trust me I bet he could rattle off names in a HEARTBEAT guys he directly works with who would.

And in my personal experience they are generally cool 1 on 1 but when the other cops show up it is a completely different experience.

I agree with you...we need to agree to disagree. Its all cool.....

I know there are bad cops, trust me, i am not a naive girl. Look at the HUGE scandal that happened in New Haven. I know the whole brother mentality too. Sometimes I roll my eyes and get fed up with some aspects like you. If you talked to me ten years ago, i definitely would have called all cops a bunch of pigs. :shrug:

But I wish sometimes the good cops would get some credit...the ones who actually like their jobs and are out there to make a difference. I just dislike when their job is underestimated. Its dangerous out there these days. Last friday there were four different shooting incidents here in town. Half of them were juveniles with handguns. There is a whole generation out there that doesn\'t give a ****. They are pretty damn crazy. Its scary for undercover cops. When you "jump" out, you never know what is going to happen. No amount of training in the academy can prepare you for all the situations.

Like right now, I don\'t know what time he\'ll get home. I just hope he\'ll be okay like most nights.

Quote from: Yoda;187442

Where did all the Serpico(s) go?

LOVE Pacino in that movie.

Gfunk · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:20:26 pm »

Quote from: Yoda;187442

Where did all the Serpico(s) go?

Philadelphia?

but for ser, kind m\'s makes a good point:

Quote

if the people being police officers can not handle the stress they shouldn\'t be police officers. The fact that [they] can kill a citizen simply by saying "they talked about a gun" or "I was afraid" should scare anyone. there is no oversight, when was the last time an unarmed civilian was shot and the police were called to task ?

yes its a tough job,but these cops need to be held accountable for their actions. I don\'t buy the stressful job arguement. cops should be held to a higher standard of following the laws (which they enforece) not a lower standard just cause, "hey, it\'s a stressful job."

SkyePrizm · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:39:30 pm »

Quote from: Gfunk;187445

Quote from: Yoda;187442
Where did all the Serpico(s) go?
Philadelphia?

but for ser, kind m\'s makes a good point:
Quote
if the people being police officers can not handle the stress they shouldn\'t be police officers. The fact that [they] can kill a citizen simply by saying "they talked about a gun" or "I was afraid" should scare anyone. there is no oversight, when was the last time an unarmed civilian was shot and the police were called to task ?
yes its a tough job,but these cops need to be held accountable for their actions. I don\'t buy the stressful job arguement. cops should be held to a higher standard of following the laws (which they enforece) not a lower standard just cause, "hey, it\'s a stressful job."

We could argue all day on the "facts", considering both sides have a different tale to this story.

If the cops did yell "police" (which can be argued what side is correct, none of us know the exact truth), bell and friends should have just stopped. Talked. Answered questions. Something most rational people would do. Intoxicated or not intoxicated. Instead, they retalliated and attempted to flee.

There are curious things on both sides....including the fact that Al Sharpton PERSONALLY paid the eyewitnesses (who claimed certain things against the police to contradict their story...especially the details of the "fourth man" fleeing the scene). Ethically, that bothers me. But notice how this doesn\'t get much press coverage...

Yoda · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2008, 10:37:11 pm »

Read the book - it\'s better than the movie

SkyePrizm · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2008, 12:01:57 am »

Quote from: Yoda;187448

Read the book - it\'s better than the movie

aren\'t they always! :wink:

solver · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:58:01 am »

Quote from: kindm\'s;187421

And to the person that said they had a criminal record blah blah blah. I have a criminal record does that mean that it is ok for the police to kill me simply for being at a strip club at 4AM ? Because if that is the case then ****, I guess I am lucky to still be alive. And how does having been arrested and convicted of a crime automatically discount anything ? With 1-4 Americans in jail at the moment, that would make it almost impossible to find witnesses who have never been involved with the law. So the precedent has been set that if you have ever been arrested and convicted of a crime you are automatically less than credible. think on that for a moment.

if you were talking about me, then let me respond because i did think on that and you have a completely valid point. i was trying to avoid making a sweping generalization in saying that "all law-breakers are foul people", and i don\'t in any way mean that. i have been arrested a few times, but for dumb ****. what does that say about my character? well, that i\'ve done dumb **** and gotten busted for it. the point i was trying to make was that these cats had been arrested before for weapons possesion, selling crack/****, etc. and they could have been all bum raps for all i know, but that still places them in the wrong place at the wrong times. i was just trying to say that their records would lead me to believe [and i think i\'m way more understanding then the long arm of "the law"] that they\'d be prone to troubling situations or ill fortune more so than most people. just what this is, a terrible tragedy, i don\'t know who to blame. if i worded it poorly, all apologies.

to play devil\'s advocate for a second, i think there also might have been some politics involved with this, because what sort of message would it have sent to the public if these cops had been convicted: "can\'t trust the police" [?]. i doubt it would have been delivered as "can\'t trust these particular police officers, but the rest are ok". sorta makes me sick to think about it, but i can\'t help but think that the thought crossed the judge\'s mind in delivering the verdict.

also, not sure that many people are in prison, bureau of justice statistics say 2,258,983 at the year end of 2006 so, maybe about 1 in about 125 or so. then again statistics show that 50% of all statistical facts are made up on the spot.

kindm's · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2008, 01:41:01 pm »

you are correct. I was wrong in my stats

It is 1 out of 100 Adults

We lead the world. Yay America

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

tyzack · « **Reply #23 on:** April 26, 2008, 01:51:23 pm »

My thoughts on cops are very hipocritcal.

On the one hand, I know that I do illegal things - namely smoke - so because of that I fear cops that i meat in the street when i am smoking/holding.

On the other hand, I have an inate trust that should something bad happen, I can call 911 and in a matter of minutes someone will be there to help me out.

The phrase "I\'ve never met a cop I like" comes to mind because all the times I\'ve met a cop it has been under not-so-favourable circumstances.

I think that the arguement about politics and public good is two sided. Cops are assumed - by social mores and most judges - to be in the right (and criminals in the wrong) most of the time, and most of the time most of them are. It\'s whole sour apple thing. I think the problem is that the police force rightly has a "brotherhood" mentality and though it would probably serve the public interest better for cops to report the currupt, mean, overreaching and overzelous ones in their mists, it would not help the image of the police as infallable agents of the law.

If that makes any sense.

Cop trails, like this one, are to me, very interesting. In a non-cop trail, the burden of proof is on the state to prove that the civilian did something wrong. In a cop trail, the burden of proof is on the state to prove that one of its agents did something wrong, which is when the whole "law enforcment brotherhood" comes into question.

Personally, I think that it should have been a jury trail.

SkyePrizm · « **Reply #24 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:19:37 pm »

Quote from: tyzack;187470

Personally, I think that it should have been a jury trail.

The cops had the choice, i believe. They chose the judge trial. I think if they had been acquitted by a jury, maybe there would have not been such an outry.....because it would have been a jury of their "peers".

I was reading an interesting article today about how the judge based his decision that the witnesses in the vehicle were not credible due to their rap sheets and demeanor in court. Suppossedly, the judge stated that their stories kept "changing" and made no sense.

Also in the article it said the protestors with Sharpton were yelling "KKK!" which is almost absurd, considering that the cops were two blacks, a mexican, and a middle-eastern.

solver · « **Reply #25 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:58:45 pm »

Quote from: SkyePrizm;187472

Quote from: tyzack;187470
Personally, I think that it should have been a jury trail.

The cops had the choice, i believe. They chose the judge trial. I think if they had been acquitted by a jury, maybe there would have not been such an outry.....because it would have been a jury of their "peers".

I was reading an interesting article today about how the judge based his decision that the witnesses in the vehicle were not credible due to their rap sheets and demeanor in court. Suppossedly, the judge stated that their stories kept "changing" and made no sense.

Also in the article it said the protestors with Sharpton were yelling "KKK!" which is almost absurd, considering that the cops were two blacks, a mexican, and a middle-eastern.

that is interesting. i imagine there are many people that would have rather seen this trial go before a jury, but i gotta ask, is that only because a jury would\'ve [probably, or at least more than likely] convicted the cops? or is it really more fair/just/valid? this story has been a bit sensationalized, but i gotta say that this case just doesn\'t have the same feel as, say, amadou diallo\'s, or mumia abu jamal\'s. it looks like the cops used judgements that cost an unarmed man his life, however, i would think that the judge understood the gravity of the situation and the circustances surrounding the events enough to put everything in perspective justly without the outside hype. i don\'t know that i could have put that kind of trust on average joe jurymember. there were probably several ways the situation could have gone that night, and if bell or one of his crew had a gun [which was a suspicion of the cops], then maybe we\'d be talking about the dead nyc officer instead. and hearing everyone chanting "kkk" on the news is only a testament to how confused people are about who to blame.

however, i avoid the police like the plague [lesson learned, executive branch, you broke me] and i agree with krs-
"overseer,
overseer,
overseer
overseeroverseeroverseroferserofficer"

tyzack · « **Reply #26 on:** April 26, 2008, 03:37:18 pm »

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is that only because a jury would\'ve [probably, or at least more than likely] convicted the cops? or is it really more fair/just/valid? this story has been a bit sensationalized, but i gotta say that this case just doesn\'t have the same feel as, say, amadou diallo\'s, or mumia abu jamal\'s. it looks like the cops used judgements that cost an unarmed man his life, however, i would think that the judge understood the gravity of the situation and the circustances surrounding the events enough to put everything in perspective justly without the outside hype. i don\'t know that i could have put that kind of trust on average joe jurymember.

and hearing everyone chanting "kkk" on the news is only a testament to how confused people are about who to blame.

I would have perfered to see a jury trial if they were found guilty or not (no one in the us is ever found "innocent"), because I believe that however flawed the jury system may be, (ie inbread pro-police bias {see my previous post about the assumed infalibility of cops, and the fact the most people have a built in trust of these people that it hard to overturn}) it is still the best judicial system on the market today.

As for people chanting kkk, well, that is a sad mix of ignorance and anger.

A mix that is far to prevolent in our society today and may have, in some small way, helped create the situation we are now discussing.

kindm's · « **Reply #27 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:13:52 pm »

As much as I might disagree with this ruling, any US citizen under the law has the right to waive their right to a jury trial and request a trial by judge that includes police officers.

So anyone charged with a crime can request this. It was a very smart move by the defense attorneys and if they were my lawyers I would want them doing everything to stack the deck in my favor. So good on them for that, everyone should have good representation.

skalnbyc · « **Reply #28 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:23:06 pm »

Quote from: SkyePrizm;187472

Also in the article it said the protestors with Sharpton were yelling "KKK!" which is almost absurd, considering that the cops were two blacks, a mexican, and a middle-eastern.

Guys like Sharpton are race pimps, pure and simple. They do more harm than good by boiling the culture of victimization.