Wow, my bros birthday today. Will have to tell him.
There were 90,000 buildings in Hiroshima before the bomb was dropped; only 28,000 remained after the bombing. Of the city\'s 200 doctors before the explosion; only 20 were left alive or capable of working. There were 1,780 nurses before-only 150 remained who were able to tend to the sick and dying.
Ya I bet there are ser numbers for Pearl Harbor.
Ya I bet there are ser numbers for Pearl Harbor.
here ya go:
comparison:
hiroshima buildings total 90,000
lost 28,000 (31.1%)
Pearl Harbor
Ships 162
sunk 8 (4.9%)
damaged 12 (7.4%)
Sunk/Damaged 20 (12.34%)
I don\'t have totals for aircraft, so I cant calculate that, but 12% is less than 31%.
Raw stats:
at least one of many source Pearl harbor:
U.S. Casualties
Navy
Killed 2,008
Wounded 710
Total 2,718
Army
Killed 218
Wounded 364
Total 582
Marines
Killed 109
Wounded 69
Total 178
Civilians
Killed 68
Wounded 35
Total 103
Total US Casualties 3581
Killed 2403
Wounded 1178
Total 3581
Total number of ships present - 162
Sunk 8
Damaged 12
Battleships
Sunk 4
Damaged 4
Destroyers
Damaged 3
Cruisers
Damaged 3
Minecraft
Sunk 1
Auxilaries
Sunk 3
Damaged 2
Aircraft
Lost 169
Damaged 159
Japanese losses
couldnt find much, but most reports say that their losses were few. 2 miget subs were lost, one sinking and one beaching itself. The beached subs\' 2 operators became americas first POW\'s
The most horrific incident in the history of the world.
A response for the invasion of America.
The Japanese picked a military target at Pearl Harbor. Our response was to hit these 2 cities on the suspicion that they were manufacturing cities for the military. Because we couldn\'t get close to Tokyo, we chose these 2 cities. Which was believed to be not heavily populated. We also didn\'t the true effect of the Atomic Bombs. Amazing how far we really haven\'t come.
Spacey/zappa, what did you guys think about the Pearl Harbor movie? Me having no history background, I wouldn\'t know if it portrayed the story well or accurate?..As I was reading the numbers for the Japanese I thought to myself from what I saw in the movie, the Americans where caught off guard so they couldn\'t really do much to the Japanese? When you visit Pearl Harbor as I did a couple of years ago, you really feel the effect it had on us.
The Pearl Harbor movie is a love story and has been made Hollywood acceptable. I doubt there is much truth to the movie and reality. The Japanese did catch the Americans off guard and that is what made it so horrific.
However, there has been plenty of mentioning that (what I have found in my studies of history) the Pearl Harbor bombings were known going to happen. The government and the leaders of the Pacific fleet had intercepted on a couple of occassions the word that the Japanese were planning an attack on the harbor. They say that it was allowed to slip through because the government and the powers that be, wanted to "test" the A-Bomb. And, as it happened, end the war with Japan.
Ant-Man; You are right about visiting Pearl Harbor and getting the sense of the lives lost. Much of what you see at Pearl Harbor has not been touched since that incident. There are still ships in the harbor that house the bodies of the soldiers that were on the ships. It is a living and breathing memorial. One that when you visit, you will be able to relive that terrible day.
Spacey said it best below. The Jap\'s hit a military target.
We killed somewhere around 200,000 citizens.
The debate scholars are having now: how many lives did the bombs really save, in terms of bringing an abrupt end to WWII. There are 2 widely different opinions on this subject.
Right, the question here is, how many lives in turn did we save by bombing them?
Right, the question here is, how many lives in turn did we save by bombing them?
By the standards of thinking and reasoning then, we saved the entire country from another invasion by the Japanese. We also scared the crap out of every other nation in the world. You also must remember we were isolationists up to this point. We had no intention of getting involved in the war. That is why we were attacked. To pull us into the war. It also gave Hitler room to worry less about us going after Germany.
However, no amount of human life is worth saving when you murder 200,000 innocent people. Not only did we murder these people, we posioned the entire area for decades with radiations. When we dropped the bomb we had no idea how destructive it was and the potential it really had.
pearl harbor movie =pfffffffft!
tora, tora, tora = :thumbsup:
there is huge debate on both sides about how much was known and not communicated, such as the 14 point document sent to the embasy and how it was taken. pearl harbor movie does get alot historically acurate (such the cook that fought back and was honored was real), but alot was also done with the love story. tora is much better though. (tora, tora, tora, or tiger, tiger, tiger in japanese was the code phrase to begin the attack).
random stuff:
hiroshima was chosen because the weather was better over that city than the other days target.
the pilots found out about the size of the bomb and what the destruction would be just hours before takeoff. They had to remove lots of equipment from the plain to make it lighter so that they could hold enough fuel for the entire flight.
one of the crew had to arm the bomb while in flight, one wrong move would have detonated it on the plain. all this on a bomber that is shaking violently.
the first step in making the bomb was to create a controlled fission reaction out of an atomic pile. This was done at university of chicago. 2 grad students had to stand on top of it ready to enclose the system incase the reactor could not be controlled, they were called the sucide squad. another assistant had a long pole which acted as a rod in the chamber. They held one end of it and had to push/pull it into the box in hopes that this slowed/ sped up the process. They were sucessfull and celebrated with red wine, because it slows the actions of radation poisoning in the body.
USS Indianapolis, which brought the bomb went down in shark infested waters on the return after being hit by a torpedo and most of the men died not from the sinking, but from being in shark infested waters too long. why? because due to the top secret nature of the mission, they were never reported to have gone out of or into either port, and were not missed for never comming back. excellent movie = mission of the shark
When the bomb was created, they didnt know its capasity. 2 of the leading theories on what would happen:
1. the blast will crack the surface of the earth and shatter the planet into so many pieces that it will blow itself apart.
2. the blast will be so large that it will blow the atmosphere (air) off of the planet into space, creating a vaccum on the surface just like the moon or any other celestial body with no atmosphere, resulting in instant death of all creatures on the planet that relied on oxygen to survive.
these were presented by the scientist who developed the bomb and they were promptly dismissed so that the testing could go on. they then protested again that a bomb should not be dropped on civilians, but into the ocean just west of japan followed quickly by a threat to end the war or we will drop the next one on civillians.
This also was dismissed because the president wanted to have all the bombs he could at his disposal, as he threatened that we had a whole arsenal of them.
the same 2 threats about distroying the earth were again raised when the h-bomb was developed, but were again dismissed.
in vegas, they used to announce the times of the bomb tests so that tourists could go up into the mountains and picnic while watching the pretty mushroom clouds.
while testing (there is still footage of this) the government put OUR OWN SOLDIERS at different distances from the ground zero mark with random amounts of protection. Some were only in their uniforms. All were told to watch the explosion that would happen soon and then they would be interviewed. Most of them died.
in the mid 90\'s we almost destroyed the planet due to miscommunications in russia. A test going on in the netherlands was mis-judged to be an american nuclear missle aimed at russia. the nuclear football (bomb activation briefcase that is always with the president of russia and USA) was opened for the first time. Luckily, they hesitated. If not, they would have retaliated by attacking america, which we would have seen as first strike and attacked them. It is postulated that this type of war would make the entire northern hemipshere unlivable. The \'missle\' was actually a test rocket, which the soviets had been told about but the paperwork was never sent to the missle command because it was deemed not improtant to them.
Right, the question here is, how many lives in turn did we save by bombing them?
You also must remember we were isolationists up to this point. We had no intention of getting involved in the war.
gotta disagree with ya Space. We covertly had our hands in many cookie jars. The japanese didn\'t just attack us outta unprovoked brutality.
Right, the question here is, how many lives in turn did we save by bombing them?
You also must remember we were isolationists up to this point. We had no intention of getting involved in the war.
gotta disagree with ya Space. We covertly had our hands in many cookie jars. The japanese didn\'t just attack us outta unprovoked brutality.
Slim, as this is true, the "official" stance of the United States going into WWII was to be isolationists. Like I said later in the last post, we were partially attacked to keep us occupied with Japan so Hitler could have moved more freely in Europe.
read a book called "peoples history of the us", completely altered my view of the us. history is written by the victors
Slim, as this is true, the "official" stance of the United States going into WWII was to be isolationists. Like I said later in the last post, we were partially attacked to keep us occupied with Japan so Hitler could have moved more freely in Europe.
Hitler had all intentions to do all kinds to the nation/world anyways, so us interfering was a good thing. Zappa, Hilter knew what those bombs could do I bet. The US knew that Hitler had intentions to us them.
Slim, I wouldn\'t ago into any indepth debates on history with Spacey dude. Just a friendly warning.
(400TH POST!)
read a book called "peoples history of the us", completely altered my view of the us. history is written by the victors
First thing you learn in history is that "history is written by the victors". What a historian is suppose to be able to do after completing his studies is to view every event analytically and with suspicion. Half of the history we learn in school is false. Go read other nations history of us and it will be in great conflict of ours.
I will have to look into that book.