Wow, he isn\'t in?
Gotta love the sarcasm that .info fam brings...
Wow, he isn\'t in?
Gotta love the sarcasm that .info fam brings...
Actually, I was being serious.
Don Mattingly is one of those baseball names that everyone knows. I am surpised that Jim Rice got is in and he isn\'t. I definetly would have put Don in before Jim.
yoda, i applaud your efforts. but i have a few issues
a) extrapolating the final four years of his career doesn\'t really make any sense. they\'re years he didn\'t play so why should we consider what his final numbers "should have been?"
b) even if you do consider an 18-season career, you can\'t extrapolate the final four years of his career using averages from his prime. you\'d have to use some sort of regression and correction factor. of course if he were playing after \'95 he\'d be all roided up and probably hit .330/35/120 every year
c) he simply wasn\'t a dominant player throughout his career. check out his stats from
baseball-reference.com. from \'84-\'87 he was great. i\'ll give you that. but if you look at the
second half of his career, can you really call him a hall of famer? take a look at some of those RBI numbers
it\'s close. but i don\'t think he deserves to be in. i think, historically, he\'ll be remembered pretty fairly
Wow, he isn\'t in?
Gotta love the sarcasm that .info fam brings...
Actually, I was being serious.
Don Mattingly is one of those baseball names that everyone knows. I am surpised that Jim Rice got is in and he isn\'t. I definetly would have put Don in before Jim.
Sorry, usually when I say something there\'s a sarcastic remark to follow; to be fair, most of the time I deserve it...
My thought is that his numbers are in line with the other 1st basemen in the hall and his other achievements (9 gold gloves, 85 AL MVP, 6 grand slams in one season, hitting a home run in 8 consectuve games) and the fact that he was the biggest player in NY for so many years should earn him a spot in Cooperstown...
Wow, he isn\'t in?
Gotta love the sarcasm that .info fam brings...
Actually, I was being serious.
Don Mattingly is one of those baseball names that everyone knows. I am surpised that Jim Rice got is in and he isn\'t. I definetly would have put Don in before Jim.
Sorry, usually when I say something there\'s a sarcastic remark to follow; to be fair, most of the time I deserve it...
My thought is that his numbers are in line with the other 1st basemen in the hall and his other achievements (9 gold gloves, 85 AL MVP, 6 grand slams in one season, hitting a home run in 8 consectuve games) and the fact that he was the biggest player in NY for so many years should earn him a spot in Cooperstown...
So do what "Red Sox Nation" (aka NESN, 80% owned by the Red Sox) did; and create a popular movement to protest/complain/beg for him to be put in.
yoda, i applaud your efforts. but i have a few issues
a) extrapolating the final four years of his career doesn\'t really make any sense. they\'re years he didn\'t play so why should we consider what his final numbers "should have been?"
b) even if you do consider an 18-season career, you can\'t extrapolate the final four years of his career using averages from his prime. you\'d have to use some sort of regression and correction factor. of course if he were playing after \'95 he\'d be all roided up and probably hit .330/35/120 every year
c) he simply wasn\'t a dominant player throughout his career. check out his stats from baseball-reference.com. from \'84-\'87 he was great. i\'ll give you that. but if you look at the second half of his career, can you really call him a hall of famer? take a look at some of those RBI numbers
it\'s close. but i don\'t think he deserves to be in. i think, historically, he\'ll be remembered pretty fairly
That is where I got his stats. I was only using their avg. year stat... I disagree with you that he wasn\'t a dominant player. Besides the last 2-3 years, I can assure you that pitchers didn\'t like facing him. But I guess it boils down to the question of whether you get in because of stats alone or because of what you meant to baseball; I personally feel it should be the later...
So do what "Red Sox Nation" (aka NESN, 80% owned by the Red Sox) did; and create a popular movement to protest/complain/beg for him to be put in.
The problem for me is that the writers vote players in. They should be voted in by their peers only. In all honesty, he\'ll never get in because in his first year of elligibility, he only got 96 votes out of the 400+ you need; this year he only got 64...
I\'m going to drudge up an old discussion, but I feel that Don Mattingly should be inducted into the Hall of Fame...
Taking the average of 18 first baseman that played in the MLB, they have the following career stats:
Seasons - 18
Batting Avg. - 0.312
Hits - 2,396
HRs - 286
RBIs - 1,454
Mattingly\'s # are:
Seasons - 14 (4 season shy)
Batting Avg. - 0.307 (0.005 shy)
Hits - 2,153 (243 shy)
HRs - 222 (64 shy)
RBIs - 1099 (355 shy)
If you take his career season average and give him the additional 4 years that the avg. HOF has his numbers look like this:
Batting Avg. - 0.307
Hits - 2,933
HRs - 302
RBIs - 1499
Given that, compared to the players that have played roughly the same amount of seasons his numbers are pretty much in line... It just frustrates me that Mattingly only got 64 votes and steroid boy McGwire got 118...
The flaw in your argument is the assumption that Mattingly would put up his "career average numbers" playing at ages 35-38, which would include hitting 20 home runs and nearly 200 hits per season, feats he hadn\'t accomplished since 1989.
Of course, if he did stick around for four more years with the Yankees, he would have a pair of World Series rings to add to his resume.
EDIT: Zuke beat me to it whilst I was busy researching.
Fair enough... I feel that he deserves to be on his accomplishments as they stand today... Again, in what is essentially a museum, what is more important statistics or the fact that he was one of the top 5 most recognized and revered players in MLB while he played; not to mention that every 1st baseman that plays for the Yanks for the foreseable future will be compared to his glove...
And as far as the Jim Rice side of the argument is concerned; he clearly caught a break due to timing. The steroid issue (which will be cleared up in time for some admitted users to get in) kept Mark McGwire out in 2009, and at the same time makes power numbers from before the steroid era look that much more impressive.
But let\'s not pretend that he\'s the only one to benefit from timing. Goose Gossage got 78 more votes when he was inducted in 2008 than the previous year. Did his stats get any better in that time? No. But Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken, Jr. both retired after the 2001 season and became eligible in 2007, so they (rightfully) took votes that may have otherwise gone to Goose (and Jim Rice). Gossage\'s vote total also increased after Bruce Sutter got in, because Goose was then the best (eligible) relief pitcher not in the Hall of Fame. And, while this is no comment on Gossage specifically, being the best eligible player isn\'t automatically a deserving Hall of Famer. Brook Fordyce will be the best eligible catcher in 2010, and he won\'t get a single vote.
The real problem with the voting system, other than the classic case of "how do you compare pitching stats to batting stats?", is that a stat isn\'t the same stat across the board. Don Mattingly hit for a higher average than Jim Rice, but he was supposed to. Rice hit more home runs than Mattingly, but that was his job.
And as far as the Jim Rice side of the argument is concerned; he clearly caught a break due to timing. The steroid issue (which will be cleared up in time for some admitted users to get in) kept Mark McGwire out in 2009, and at the same time makes power numbers from before the steroid era look that much more impressive.
But let\'s not pretend that he\'s the only one to benefit from timing. Goose Gossage got 78 more votes when he was inducted in 2008 than the previous year. Did his stats get any better in that time? No. But Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken, Jr. both retired after the 2001 season and became eligible in 2007, so they (rightfully) took votes that may have otherwise gone to Goose (and Jim Rice). Gossage\'s vote total also increased after Bruce Sutter got in, because Goose was then the best (eligible) relief pitcher not in the Hall of Fame. And, while this is no comment on Gossage specifically, being the best eligible player isn\'t automatically a deserving Hall of Famer. Brook Fordyce will be the best eligible catcher in 2010, and he won\'t get a single vote.
The real problem with the voting system, other than the classic case of "how do you compare pitching stats to batting stats?", is that a stat isn\'t the same stat across the board. Don Mattingly hit for a higher average than Jim Rice, but he was supposed to. Rice hit more home runs than Mattingly, but that was his job.
I personally thing that both Rice and Mattingly deserve to be in the hall... The statistic that seems to be left out in the eyes of the voters is how they fielded their position... During his 14 year career, no one was better at playing the position in either leagues... In 14 seasons (the first of which he only played 7 games), he was awarded 9 gold glove awards (Keith Hernandez was close with 7 gold gloves... I\'m not taking anything away from anyone that\'s gotten in, I just think he deserves to be in...
Going to the game on sat with a few buddies from work, never been to a sox yankees game before, really pumped. We\'ve got right firld seats main level. Not too bad really $100 ea. stubhub. Can\'t wait.
Going to the game on sat with a few buddies from work, never been to a sox yankees game before, really pumped. We\'ve got right firld seats main level. Not too bad really $100 ea. stubhub. Can\'t wait.
Nice! Enjoy the game... Get there at least 3 hours before game time so you can enjoy the Stadium... And if you\'re a hot dog guy, don\'t get the Hebrew National dog; they charge $5.50 for a regular dog when you can go to Highlander Hot Dog on the main level and get a foot long dog for $6.50...
And as far as the Jim Rice side of the argument is concerned; he clearly caught a break due to timing. The steroid issue (which will be cleared up in time for some admitted users to get in) kept Mark McGwire out in 2009, and at the same time makes power numbers from before the steroid era look that much more impressive.
But let\'s not pretend that he\'s the only one to benefit from timing. Goose Gossage got 78 more votes when he was inducted in 2008 than the previous year. Did his stats get any better in that time? No. But Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken, Jr. both retired after the 2001 season and became eligible in 2007, so they (rightfully) took votes that may have otherwise gone to Goose (and Jim Rice). Gossage\'s vote total also increased after Bruce Sutter got in, because Goose was then the best (eligible) relief pitcher not in the Hall of Fame. And, while this is no comment on Gossage specifically, being the best eligible player isn\'t automatically a deserving Hall of Famer. Brook Fordyce will be the best eligible catcher in 2010, and he won\'t get a single vote.
The real problem with the voting system, other than the classic case of "how do you compare pitching stats to batting stats?", is that a stat isn\'t the same stat across the board. Don Mattingly hit for a higher average than Jim Rice, but he was supposed to. Rice hit more home runs than Mattingly, but that was his job.
Brook Fordyce, the Pride of St. Bernard High School, Uncasville, CT. Go Saints.
what\'s up with the cat on the field? door guys must have been snoozin im sure he didnt have a ticket and what up with the highlight of the dude hucking a poor little kitten ? ! also ichiro is the best player in baseball next to pujols. why doesnt he join a contending team ? the mariners have blown since he\'s been there, and every year that i can remember. such a waste of serious talent. at any rate go red sox !