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General Discussions => No Glove No Love => Topic started by: FrankZappa on December 12, 2007, 08:26:02 am

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: FrankZappa on December 12, 2007, 08:26:02 am

The List:

Early indications of Steroid Use in Baseball (1988 to August 1998)
Section IV, pages 60-76
Ken Caminiti  pages 71-73 (admitted steroid use)
Jose Canseco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Canseco)  pages 61-66 (admitted steroid use)
Lenny Dykstra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Dykstra)  pages 66-67
Wally Joyner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Joyner)  page 73 (admitted steroid use)

Androstenedione and Baseball\'s Broadening Awareness of the Use of Performance Enhancing Substances
Section V, pages 77-85
Mark McGwire  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_McGwire) pages 77-85  
Derrick Turnbow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Turnbow)  page 130

Incidents Providing Evidence to Baseball Officials of Players\' Possession or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances
Section VI, pages 86-111
Manny Alexander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manny_Alexander) pages 91-92
Ricky Bones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Bones) pages 92-94
Alex Cabrera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Cabrera) pages 94-95
Paxton Crawford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paxton_Crawford) pages 111
Juan Gonzalez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_M._Gonzalez_%28baseball%29) pages 95-99
Jason Grimsley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Grimsley) pages 106-108
Rafael Palmeiro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Palmeiro) pages 103-106
David Segui (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Segui) pages 110

Major League Baseball and the BALCO Investigation, Section VII, pages 112-137
Marvin Bernard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Bernard) pages 127-128  
Barry Bonds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds) pages 128-130  
Bobby Estalella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Estalella_%28baseball_catcher%29) page 130  
Jason Giambi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Giambi) pages 131-133  
Jeremy Giambi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Giambi) pages 133-134  
Armando Rios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Rios) pages 113  
Benito Santiago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Santiago) pages 134-135  
Gary Sheffield  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Sheffield)pages 135-137  
Randy Velarde pages 137

Information Obtained Regarding Other Players\' Possession or Use of Steroids and Human Growth Hormone
Section VIII, pages 138-233
Chad Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Allen_%28baseball_player%29) pages 225-227  
Mark Bell pages 219-220  
Gary Bennett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Bennett) pages 222-223  
Larry Bigbie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Bigbie) pages 152-158  
Kevin Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Brown_%28baseball%29) pages 214-217  
Mike Carreon pages 163-164  
Jason Christiansen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Christiansen) page 205  
Howie Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_Clark) pages 228-229  
Roger Clemens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clemens) pages 167-175  
Jack Cust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Cust) page 159  
Brendan Donnelly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Donnelly) pages 224-225  
Chris Donnells pages 190-194  
Lenny Dykstra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Dykstra) pages 149-150  
Matt Franco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Franco) page 165  
Ryan Franklin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Franklin) page 190  
Eric Gagne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gagne) pages 217-219  
Jason Grimsley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Grimsley) pages 177-179  
Jerry Hairston Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Hairston_Jr.) pages 207-208  
Matt Herges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Herges) pages 221-222  
Phil Hiatt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Hiatt) pages 194-195  
Glenallen Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenallen_Hill) pages 183-185  
Todd Hundley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Hundley) pages 163-164  
Mike Judd  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Judd) pages 230-232  
David Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Justice) pages 181-182  
Chuck Knoblauch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Knoblauch) page 177  
Tim Laker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Laker) pages 159-161  
Mike Lansing (http://Mike Lansing) pages 196-197  
Paul Lo Duca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lo_Duca) pages 208-211  
Nook Logan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nook_Logan) page 229  
Josias Manzanillo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josias_Manzanillo) pages 161-163  
Cody McKay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cody_McKay) pages 197-198  
Kent Merker pages 198-199  
Bart Miadich  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Miadich)pages 212-213  
Hal Morris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Morris) pages 164-165  
Daniel Naulty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Naulty) pages 232-233  
Denny Neagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Neagle) pages 187-188  
Jim Parque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Parque) pages 223-224  
Andy Pettitte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Pettitte) pages 175-176  
Adam Piatt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Piatt) pages 199-201  
Todd Pratt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Pratt) page 195  
Stephen Randolph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Randolph) pages 206-207  
Adam Riggs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Riggs) pages 211-212  
Brian Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Roberts) page 158  
David Segui (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Segui)  pages 150-152  
F.P. Santangelo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.P._Santangelo) pages 182-183  
Mike Stanton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Stanton) pages 205-206  
Ricky Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Stanton) pages 230-232  
Miguel Tejada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Tejada) pages 201-204  
Mo Vaughn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Vaughn) pages 186-187  
Ron Villone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Villone) pages 188-190  
Fernando Vina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Vina) pages 213-214  
Rondell White (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondell_White) pages 165-167  
Jeff Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Williams) pages 227-228  
Todd Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Williams) page 194  
Kevin Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Young_%28baseball%29) pages 195-196  
Gregg Zaun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Zaun) pages 179-181

The Threat Posed by Internet Sales of Steroids and Human Growth Hormone
Section VIII, pages 234-257

Rick Ankiel  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Ankiel) pages 243-244  
David Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bell_%28baseball_player%29) pages 244-245
Paul Byrd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Byrd) pages 245-246  
Jose Canseco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Canseco) pages 246-247  
Jay Gibbons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gibbons) pages 247-248  
Troy Glaus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Glaus) pages 248-249  
Jason Grimsley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Grimsley) page 249  
Jose Guillen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guillen) pages 249-251  
Jerry Hairston Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Hairston_Jr.) page 251  
Darren Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Holmes) pages 251-252  
Gary Matthews Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Matthews_Jr.)  pages 252-253  
John Rocker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rocker) page 254  
Scott Schoeneweis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Schoeneweis) pages 254-255  
Ismael Valdez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismael_Valdez)  page 255  
Matt Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball) pages 255-256  
Steve Woodward page 257  

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Igziabeher on December 12, 2007, 08:33:58 am

way to produce a \'fake\' list before the actual one is published.  is there some sort of confidentiality clause at your job?;)

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: FrankZappa on December 12, 2007, 08:37:50 am

there is no way to correlate this list to the real one, it\'s just a bunch of stuff my friend will put together "in case". No different than pitchie putting up a list.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Igziabeher on December 12, 2007, 08:39:00 am

:calls up jason varitek to see if he minds some bicyclist from CT bandying his name about:

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: booztravlr on December 12, 2007, 08:59:06 am

Damn, look at all those AL players. I\'m a little surprised to see Tori Hunter, David Ortiz and Pudge on there. Obviously it\'s not the actual list but I always figured Ortiz was just a fatass and only needed to get his weight behind the ball.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: BennyBoomers on December 12, 2007, 09:06:25 am

I would be very disappointed if Ortiz or Varitek is on this list


I REALLY REALLY hope that ARod is on it though...that would be great

P.s sounds like you got a pretty sweet job there at ESPN...hiring???

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: FrankZappa on December 12, 2007, 09:24:26 am

yea, I really think he pulled most of these out of thin air.

I\'d be shocked to see ortiz on the list. I\'m sure there have been some red sox players over the years, but Ortiz just doesn\'t seem built that way where he would use.

Less than how you feel about any given player though, I\'m curious what people think about how this will affect the sport in general, the teams, etc.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: BennyBoomers on December 12, 2007, 09:32:42 am

If anything I think it will take some heat off of Bonds.  I always thought that he got too much blame for a problem that is obviously rampant across the league.


I would also be curious to know if Mitchell felt any pressure to overlook some Red Sox players because of his ties to the organization

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Klout on December 12, 2007, 09:38:29 am

i will laugh my ass off if pooholes is on there. :lol: I will be sad if Piazza is on there though :(

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: tyzack on December 12, 2007, 01:12:08 pm

I think that the more important thing is who used them when they were illegal.

If something is not illegal than *shocker* it\'s not a crime to do it.

MLB didn\'t have a "ban" until, what, 04?

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: wiredchicken on December 12, 2007, 01:37:14 pm

Quote

I\'m a little surprised to see Pudge on there.

are you ser?

i bet there are like 50% of those names on the actual list.  there are gonna be some big names listed i think.  they said the list is between 60-80.

my question is...how did they actually compile the list.  wsas it based on all the drug tests that people have taken over the years?  and if so, when was a certain person tested?  was it illegal then?  Illegal or not, i dont care.  i just want to know who was on what when i was young and rooting for these fuckos

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: kindm's on December 12, 2007, 05:15:18 pm

Quote from: tyzack;172716

I think that the more important thing is who used them when they were illegal.

If something is not illegal than *shocker* it\'s not a crime to do it.

MLB didn\'t have a "ban" until, what, 04?

Steriods have been illegal in the US for a longtime. Just because MLB didn\'t have ban doesn\'t mean these guys didn\'t break the law.

It just really sucks that cheating in sports in general is so rampant. MLB, NFL whatever. It is always about the almighty dollar or ego or both.

I feel for all the guys and girls (i\'m looking at you Marion Jones) who do it clean only to loose jobs, scholarships, or have their medals taken away because of cheaters. What ever happened to sportsmanship ? Guys getting boarded and run by others in the NHL. There just seems to be so much classlessness in sports now.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gordo on December 12, 2007, 06:10:07 pm

I\'ve always been a huge baseball fan, but I disagree that all of these guys are a bunch of "fuckos". I\'d love for the game to still hold total integrity when it comes to substance, but it hasn\'t for a long time and to be honest, I don\'t hold it against them. If you spend your whole life completely dedicated to baseball, wanting to get better, wanting to be the best, and all of the sudden your natural talent can\'t sustain itself against the cream of the crop, and then someone offers a solution to that problem--it\'d be hard very, very hard not to bite the apple.

Bonds is in the situation he\'s in because he watched McGwire and Sosa take over the league when he knew he was a better baseball player. He levelled the playing field and showed it was true. And think about the mediocre ballplayers (relatively speaking in the MLB) who saw a light at the end of the tunnel flashing "Wanna\' Be An All-Star? Come Join...."

What I have a problem with is the poor character many have shown once they\'re in the dog-house. It\'s a sad situation, no doubt, and kids especially for the first time have a realistic, tarnished view of their heroes, but ultimately the athletes are fulfilling their life\'s desire which would be impossible naturally (given the competition), they\'re feeding the fans what they hope to be paying for--500 foot dongs, and in the end their reputations might suffer while their bodies certainly will.

It\'s a price they\'re obviously willing to pay because on their deathbed they won\'t drift away with images of the courtroom, they\'ll dream of those summer days where all seemed perfect as they trotted around third base hearing their name chanted by thousands and probably still think, "It was worth it for that piece of heaven I never would\'ve tasted."

I\'m not saying this is a desirable tale by any means, but I also don\'t know what it\'s like to be in a position where you\'re so close to reaching a potential you once thought impossible of achieving. I think the mind of a professional athlete is something to explore rather than just writing them off as a bunch of scumbags because they "cheated".

Now I ask myself, "Nick, if you could shoot yourself up with some magical shit that will make you rip a guitar like Tim Palmieri and sing like Rod Stewart, given you\'ll live a shorter life and may suffer physical anguish when the glory days are over, would you?"..... My answer: :chin:

Call me stupid, silly, maybe even cynical, whatever, but it\'s a dilemma that people seem to only want to scratch the surface on.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gfunk on December 13, 2007, 01:17:17 am

Interesting post, Gordo. I looked at this situation from a different perspective after reading.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: tyzack on December 13, 2007, 08:18:14 am

This post was stupid

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: booztravlr on December 13, 2007, 10:20:34 am

Don\'t forget about Clemens...

Quote from: booztravlr;145217

2007-05-14: i am almost positive this is not common knowledge as i just heard about it this morning. a kid i work with has a brother and also a friend who work at espn. turns out clemens\' late start last year was not due to a holdout for a bigger contract nor was it due to the fact that he was out of shape or undecided about his baseball future. it was due to the fact that he had failed a drug test (steroids). instead of the league banning him for 50 games with a public announcement, they decided to just have him wait about 50 games into the season before he signed with a team. this way one of their most recognizable and well known players wouldnt fall into the same group as the juiced up homerun hitters. i know clemens name has come up occasionally when steroids are mentioned but i dont think anything has ever happened from all of it. baseball officials and players really need to clean up their act.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Spacey on December 13, 2007, 11:14:42 am

MLB should have an *

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: davepeck on December 13, 2007, 02:13:51 pm

no real big names other than pettite and clemens.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gordo on December 13, 2007, 05:24:55 pm

Quote from: Gfunk;172786

Interesting post, Gordo. I looked at this situation from a different perspective after reading.

Glad you\'re open to the thought, at least.

Quote from: tyzack;172792

This post was stupid

I\'ve got a pair of knee pads, the right one says "ty" and the left "zack".

Quote from: Spacey;172825

MLB should have an *

Precisely.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: jocelyn on December 13, 2007, 05:25:05 pm

Though I obviously can\'t condone the steroid use, I can\'t write off these guys completely for doing something that was practically the norm in MLB. That doesn\'t make it right, but steroid use doesn\'t make someone a terrible person either.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Rujah on December 13, 2007, 05:29:26 pm

Andy Pettite
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Miguel Tejada
Eric Gagne (can you say career over?)
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Lenny Dykstra
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Mike Stanton
Paul Lo Duca (bet the Nationals are thrilled!)
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown (there’s a shock!)
Matt Herges
Chris Donnels
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust (poor guy!)
Paul Lo Duca
Kent Mercker
Rick Ankiel (won’t keep him on our fantasy team!)
Tim Laker
Todd Hundley (told ya!)
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Jose Canseco
Chuck Knoblauch
Gregg Zaun
David Justice (will it hurt his HOF chances?)
F.P. Santangelo (ha!)
Glenallen Hill (didn’t he have a four-homer, 10-RBI game?)
Mo Vaughn
Paul Byrd
Jose Guillen
Jason Grimsley
John Rocker
Gary Matthews Jr.
Matt Williams

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gordo on December 13, 2007, 05:39:37 pm

Not a single current or past player (of significant time spent) on the Cubs. Sweet. Now I know why they fall apart in either September or October.


















Wellll I guess sometimes April or May too.  :redface:

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Klout on December 13, 2007, 06:24:21 pm

john rocker :lol:

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Wolfman on December 13, 2007, 10:05:46 pm

I was gonna make a joke about the Red Sox\' glorious 2007 championship being null and void because Eric Gagne was on the roids...then I figured that Gagne was definitely not on the roids in 2007.  Can\'t believe Milwaukee just gave him $10 mil for next season, he\'s obviously one of these post-roid freefallers.  Some guys have been good after stopping, but only if they were good before starting.  It seems that Gagne was never anything without the juice.

As far as this whole thing goes, I\'m just roided out.  I don\'t care anymore.  I can\'t get fired up to write about this.  It\'s just not that exciting or scandalous to me.  

Now if you\'ll excuse me, I have 2 new championship DVDs to watch...

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: zero on December 14, 2007, 01:14:12 am

I cant believe milwakee is paying ten mil for anyone...i think theo might have given them a donation

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: jocelyn on December 14, 2007, 01:45:21 am

"Please, just get him out of here!"

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gfunk on December 14, 2007, 05:07:28 pm

Quote from: zero;172941

I cant believe milwakee is paying ten mil for anyone...i think theo might have given them a donation

Quote from: jocelyn;172942

"Please, just get him out of here!"

:lol:^^
I wish we never traded Gabbard for that chump.
then again, they wouldn\'t have been able to get ten million for KG.

Title: MLB Mitchell Report (steriods usage)
Post by: Gordo on December 14, 2007, 05:56:15 pm

Quote from: Klout;172923

john rocker :lol: