The Breakfast.info
General Discussions => Inner Glimpse => Topic started by: Me! on June 02, 2007, 02:20:27 am
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David Milch\'s (creator of Deadwood) new show is premiering after the Sopranos season finale. I\'m pretty excited for this since it\'s Milch, and the commercials look good.
From wikipedia:
John From Cincinnati is an American television drama, set against the surfing community of Imperial Beach, California. It is set to be broadcast on HBO. It is the result of a collaborative effort between writers David Milch and Kem Nunn, whose novels have been termed surf noir. [1] The series began filming in October 2006, with a scheduled premiere on June 10, 2007.
The series will star Bruce Greenwood, Austin Nichols, Rebecca De Mornay, Luke Perry, Brian Van Holt, Dayton Callie, Jim Beaver, Garret Dillahunt, Willie Garson, Luis Guzmán, Emily Rose, and Ed O\'Neill among others.[2] Milch is an established name in television production; he created Deadwood and co-created NYPD Blue.[3]
The series includes surfing sequences by well respected surfers Brock Little, Keala Kennelly, Dan Malloy (surfer), John-John Florence, Shane Beschen, and Herbie Fletcher.[4]
The program deals with a strange young man of mysterious origin and the effect he has on a community and in particular a dysfunctional family of professional surfers.
HBO is currently running a subtle street promotion campaign using standard issue lost pet and for sale signs posted on phone poles in parts of Chicago and New York City to promote awareness of the name of the show and its main character John Monad.
HBO\'s trailer for the show is set to "The Perfect Ending" by Harriet Street
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how many c*cksuck3rs per episode do you figure this show\'ll have?
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Luke Perry? Oh God.
I just finished a really bad book comprised of short stories from Hawaii and if I never have to hear mention of the ocean or surfing ever again I might be ok with that.
But still, I can understand why you would be looking forward to this.
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I love Milch, he\'s very maticulous about everything he does so I have high hopes for this.
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definitely! the attention to detail in deadwood was probably its downfall. i can\'t imagine the cost of those sets, yet without them the show wouldn\'t have held up....
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definitely! the attention to detail in deadwood was probably its downfall. i can\'t imagine the cost of those sets, yet without them the show wouldn\'t have held up....
Actually the downfall of Deadwood was due to John From Cincinnati. Deadwood was originally supposed to be 4 seasons, Milch told HBO about John and they basically gave him the choice between season 4 or John, from what I understand.
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damn. that kinda rough!
there\'s a guy over on phishhook who\'s buddies with someone on deadwood (writer or something - dude\'s wife got to be a whore-extra on one episode) and got to see them shooting. sure, its a hollywood lot, but they went way beyond the typical false store fronts. each building was actually built out depending on how much air time it\'d get. just a little air time meant the front lobby/entrace was completed. a bunch meant you could actually sleep in the hotel, etc., which is why i figured that was the downfall. but if hbo could keep that kind of a budget then hopefully his next show will be even badder assed!
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Interesting. Wondered what would be happening after the Soprano\'s.
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i\'ll give it a shot.. but they\'ve had the most god-awful short spots for this show running *constantly* on WFAN for like the last 2 weeks, and it\'s really fucking annoying..
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i hope luke perry surfs with his shirt off! what do i care, i cant afford HBO. who\'s inviting me over? i\'ll bring rice krispy squares and some packs of cool-aid. i dont have any sugar though.
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i hope luke perry surfs with his shirt off!
Yeah, bring 90210 cast members out for cameo appearances! Maybe he has some new make-out spots to take Brenda and Valerie to down in San diego!!
In all seriousness, I was wondering in the last week what Luke Perry has done since my favorite show ended 5 or so years ago.
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i hope luke perry surfs with his shirt off! what do i care, i cant afford HBO. who\'s inviting me over? i\'ll bring rice krispy squares and some packs of cool-aid. i dont have any sugar though.
you must know the gypsies.
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I\'m gonna give this show a shot, mainly since its Milch and Ed O\'Neill is in it. I\'d much rather another season of Deadwood, but whatta ya gonna do?
It can\'t be any worse than Big Love.
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i hope luke perry surfs with his shirt off! what do i care, i cant afford HBO. who\'s inviting me over? i\'ll bring rice krispy squares and some packs of cool-aid. i dont have any sugar though.
Sounds perfect.
I\'ll bring Siracha, but I don\'t have any chili peppers.
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I\'m gonna give this show a shot, mainly since its Milch and Ed O\'Neill is in it. I\'d much rather another season of Deadwood, but whatta ya gonna do?
I agree I\'d take Deadwood anyday of the week. But this looks like it should be good. I\'ve heard it refered to as "surf noir" not really sure how you can have noir in a bright sunny enviroment, it kinda goes against everything that noir is. but whatever.
It can\'t be any worse than Big Love.
really? I don\'t love it but I like it.
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the first episode was more than enough to get me to watch for another week. milch may have another winner on his hands.
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(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5996/ep01lincjohnrm1.jpg)
Well sometimes I find it hard to get into a new show, I find I like first episodes better going back and watching them once you know the characters and what-not. That being said I did like this show. I like the possibilities. I def like John possible spoiler:[SPOILER]I\'ve heard he\'s an alien of somekind? :shrug: [/SPOILER] and Ed O\'Neil, what\'s his deal? a great character one way or the other. The scene in the car where he "looses his temper" :lol:
All in all :thumbsup:, I\'ll be watching.
FYI: to anyone who\'s interested you can watch the 1st episode on HBO.com
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was waiting for you to chime in.
I was happy to see Ellsworth make an appearance as the Vietnam vet dude, and seeing Charlie Utter in the scenes from next week. Glad to see some Deadwood alum getting airtime.
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FYI: tomorrow night\'s episode is onDemand right now.
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FYI: tomorrow night\'s episode is onDemand right now.
apparently it\'s been on there all week. wonder if they\'ll be doing that with all the episodes..
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Wow, does this show suck.
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i hope luke perry surfs with his shirt off! what do i care, i cant afford HBO. who\'s inviting me over? i\'ll bring rice krispy squares and some packs of cool-aid. i dont have any sugar though.
you must know the gypsies.
Correct. The Swede is infact gypsy affiliated.
oh and i havn\'t decided weather i like this show or not yet. i will know by the end 0of episode 3.
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i watched the first 3 episodes last night and this show most certainly does not suck.
in fact,i kinda like it.
mitch=surfing LEGEND
butchie=mitch\'s son.surfing legend/junkie
seanie=butchies son.soon to be surfing legend.
i like the show.
i also like anything with luke perry(the best actor of our time)in it.
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I find the show pertty entertaining.
It\'s fun to quote when you\'re drunk.
"I\'m going to bone Kai. Might have to break her jaw first."
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"I got my eye on you!"
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I don\'t know Butchie instead.
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The last couple episodes kinda fizzled out, but tonight was A+. shit just gets weirder and weirder.
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i havent missed an episode,even watch a few of em a coupla times but,for the love of god,i have NOCLUE what the fuck is going on in this show.....
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i havent missed an episode,even watch a few of em a coupla times but,for the love of god,i have NOCLUE what the fuck is going on in this show.....
give up.
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This link should help some of you gain a better understanding for the premise of the show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism
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The last couple episodes kinda fizzled out, but tonight was A+. shit just gets weirder and weirder.
holy shit what a great fuckin episode. weird as shit, but the lack of understanding of what\'s going on just draws me in more. I love it! was still a little half and half but after last night I\'m comepletly aboard! I can\'t wait to see where this shit is going
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Well it seems this show isn\'t garnering too much interest. I think it\'s great, weird as shit don\'t get me wrong, but really good. Next week is the season finale, the typical 10 episode 1st season. I just pray that this show doesn\'t go the way of Canivale, which just got too weird for people and ended without any real conclusion.
anyone notice the very Deadwood soundtrack as Sissy was searching for Shaun?
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Me and Jenny have been on the ball w/ watching it. Can\'t wait for the finale. I missed the soundtrack, maybe i\'ll watch it again, but it wouldn\'t be the first, nor last deadwoodesque thing they\'ve done so i don\'t put it past them.
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Redemption is at hand. John\'s father aka God, will be played by Dustin Diamond.
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Me and Jenny have been on the ball w/ watching it. Can\'t wait for the finale. I missed the soundtrack, maybe i\'ll watch it again, but it wouldn\'t be the first, nor last deadwoodesque thing they\'ve done so i don\'t put it past them.
it wasn\'t the first time I noticed it, very Deadwood esque music when Milch goes into dramatic sequences.
Redemption is at hand. John\'s father aka God, will be played by Dustin Diamond.
I don\'t think John\'s father is God. I think he is somesort of alien life or something like that. Butchie and Kai may not be too far off with the whole auto-pilot thing, he kinda talks about "my father" they way R2-D2 or C-3PO would talk about "the maker." But I don\'t know I could see this going a number of different ways. I\'ve got sooo many questions/ideas. Are the stick figures the one\'s and zero\'s from Cass\' camera? is Shaun coming back? what\'s with the dead guy? Rm 24? the only two people we ever see in the bar are the dead guy and shaun, is Shaun dead? Is the docor gay?, or just polite? and the list goes on. anyway can\'t wait for the finale.
Long live Milch!
I\'ve heard alot of shit talking about this show on Deadwood boards and what not, I just don\'t understand what all the hating is about.
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A lot of the more abstract scenes are merely John "healing" the damaged psyches of each charachter. For instance, the gay guy carries around the trauma of the man in room 24 with him (hence the man showing up the last several episodes). This block prevents him from being his complete self. Each charachter has a similar cross to bear. They need to be strong so they can develop their healing/paranormal abilties and start doing the work of God (or John\'s Father). I can see how this show can be incredibly impossible to understand for someone who doesn\'t have a background in transpersonal psychology and/or spirituality. Still, the dialogue sounds like it\'s written by someone with autism.
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Barry (the hotel owner/gay guy) was "de-flowered" in rm 24 from what I picked up in the 1st episode.
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Supposedly everything will be explained in the finale. I can\'t wait.
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Barry (the hotel owner/gay guy) was "de-flowered" in rm 24 from what I picked up in the 1st episode.
in the episode where john had his big speech, didn\'t he say something along the lines of the dead guy shooting a load in his face?
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Barry was raped.
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dunzo.
Say goodbye to \'John from Cincinnati\'
LOS ANGELES, California (Hollywood Reporter) -- The wave has crashed for "John From Cincinnati." A day after its first-season finale, HBO on Monday canceled the dark surfing drama.
Labeled by critics as "strange," "weird" and "unlikable," "John" never clicked with viewers despite a strong marketing campaign and such well-known leads as Rebecca De Mornay and Bruce Greenwood.
For the few devoted fans of the show, which David Milch ("Deadwood") created with "surf noir" author Kem Nunn, the mysterious final line in the season finale -- John saying, "Mother of God, Cass-Kai" over a shot of Kai (Keala Kennelly) surfing -- will remain just that, a mystery.
Meanwhile, HBO is yet to decide the fate of its other summer freshman series, the comedy "Flight of the Conchords."
It\'s been a rough summer for HBO, while basic cable networks have launched a slew of hit new series -- USA Network\'s "Burn Notice," Lifetime\'s "Army Wives" and TNT\'s "Saving Grace," all renewed for a second season.
HBO\'s upcoming series include the drama "In Treatment," the comedy "12 Miles of Bad Road" and "True Blood," the recently picked-up vampire drama by "Six Feet Under" creator Alan Ball.
HBO is a unit of Time Warner, as is CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/08/14/television.john.reut/index.html
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No shock... Milch is a pompous ass hole. He could\'ve went about a WAY simpler way of telling his story, instead he had to make a huge abstract commentary on how visual information retards the spirit and strengthens the illusion of duality. My best guess is Cass and Kai would\'ve had incredible, wet and oily lesbian sex thus causing the Earth\'s electromagnetic field to expand into an oblivion, thus bringing all light and consciousness into the divine.
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I rode the fence from day 1. I kept watching because it was so different, but I can\'t say I ever thoroughly enjoyed myself (with the exception of the episode where Shaun broke his neck and \'mysteriously\' made a full recovery). The scene in the motel parking lot where John basically layed down the most ambiguous facts of life ever is what ultimately lost my interest. I appreciate the risk and ideas that are "out there", but this crossed the line for me. Maybe I\'m just not intelligent enough, or perhaps crazy enough. :chin:
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No, Gordo, you are intelligent enough. This show was made by Mich for Milch, that\'s why no one understood it.
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No, Gordo, you are intelligent enough. This show was made by Mich for Milch, that\'s why no one understood it.
Thanks man. I\'m going to go eat now, It\'s been months of confusion, depression and finally starvation. Hey I just realized, John from Cincinnati --- Jesus Christ --- the J.C. connection. Wow, I\'m beginning to see the light.
When\'s the new season of Curb start anyways?
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September 4th!!!
I\'d get really annoyed when people called John an "alien". Nice to know at least one more person got the allegory.
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Looks like I made the right decision after three underwhelming episodes. Good riddance.
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Well, I for one really got into this show, I\'m sad to see it go. But at the same time I saw this coming a mile away.
I\'d get really annoyed when people called John an "alien". Nice to know at least one more person got the allegory.
uh....... did you watch the last episode? John is an alien.
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Once again, he\'s not. John was Jesus.
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whatever.....
maybe this means we can finally get our Deadwood movies........
thought this article was interesting:
\'John from Cincinnati\' story raises questions about media, intelligence, \'dumbing down\' of Americans
Steve Hammons
August 15, 2007
The decision to cancel the HBO series “John from Cincinnati” after one ten-episode season seems to raise a few questions worth kicking around.
Were fans of the HBO shows “The Sopranos” and “Deadwood” so disappointed those programs ended that they took it out on “John?” Looks like that was part of it.
Was there a culture clash between the psychology of New York City media honchos and life in the San Diego region? Very possibly.
Is “John” a dumb show or did some viewers and critics ridicule and avoid the issues it addressed and how it presented them because of the “dumbing down” of Americans? That is a question possibly worth looking at.
The creators, writers, cast and crew presented a story of both conventional personal and social issues along with the emergence of unconventional developments.
Family and personal challenges, surfing, community social dynamics and similar topics blended with unusual elements involving the realities of human spirituality in the context of modern discoveries in quantum physics and psychology.
SAN DIEGO CONSCIOUSNESS
For those people who have never been to the San Diego region, where “John from Cincinnati” is set and filmed, do not confuse it with Los Angeles or other areas of California. It is unique.
The San Diego area is home to the largest military complex on the planet. The U.S. Navy and Marine Corps have been a major presence and influence since World War II.
North Island Naval Air Station on Coronado Island was a center of pioneering efforts in naval aviation. Aircraft carriers dock there.
A major Navy SEAL headquarters is nearby. The Navy’s Marine Mammal Program that trains dolphins, sea lions, Beluga whales and other marine creatures is on the Point Loma peninsula. A submarine base and many other Navy activities are also part of the area.
Whether we have pro-military, anti-military or neutral-military feelings in this time of a controversial war and controversial national leadership, the people of San Diego have created a community with a significant degree of fellowship, teamwork and unity.
These human factors blend with the beauty, history and geography of the region, the area\'s wonderful beaches, the profound nature of the Pacific Ocean and the proximity to Mexico, among other elements.
That Imperial Beach in San Diego County was chosen as the setting for “John from Cincinnati” is not an unimportant thing. It has meanings. And the meanings are not entirely clear for many people.
JOHNNY APPLESEED
The team that worked on “John from Cincinnati” explored the unusual and anomalous things that we sometimes encounter in our everyday lives.
Odd coincidences that might actually be “synchronicity” – parallel occurrences that are not random accidents, but have some meaning and are connected in ways that might be mysterious, unusual or unclear.
These kinds of happenings reflect the understanding from current scientific studies and some theories in psychology and philosophy about the way things take shape in our lives.
Some events and developments are non-linear and non-local. That is, our normal understanding of time and space are not the only ways that time and space work. Our normal day-to-day lives may interface with other configurations of time and space that are different.
Our connections with other people, too, might be different and deeper than we realize.
It is clear from certain episodes of “John” that aspects of synchronicity were being examined and portrayed. Were other connections with significance going on in the show that we are not fully aware of?
For example, the opening song for the series is “Johnny Appleseed” performed by Joe Strummer and The Mescaleros. Part of the lyrics are:
"Lord, there goes Johnny Appleseed – He might pass by in the hour of need – There\'s a lot of souls – Ain\'t drinking from no well locked in a factory"
"Lord, there goes a Buick forty-nine – Black sheep of the angels riding, riding down the line – We think there is a soul, we don\'t know – That soul is hard to find"
Apart from the obvious spiritual tone of the lyrics, did the “John from Cincinnati” team realize Johnny Appleseed lived in the southern Ohio and Indiana area in the Cincinnati region? Did Joe Strummer and The Mescaleros?
Did they know that Johnny Appleseed, born John Chapman, grew up during the era of the American Revolution and its aftermath?
He was born in 1774 and died in 1845. He was not a vagabond who wandered around dropping apple seeds, but actually created many orchards and nurseries, and was quite wealthy when he passed on.
He was also deeply involved in a church based on the philosophy of Emmanuel Swedenborg, a spiritual viewpoint followed by millions of people today that explores ideas about the afterlife, other spiritual dimensions, angels and similar concepts.
Johnny “Appleseed” Chapman lived in an era when the Cherokee and many other indigenous Indian people were being pushed out of the Appalachian Mountain region, Ohio and other areas along the frontier of westward exploration and expansion of the European colonists and newly-minted “Americans.” In fact, Chapman planted some of his apple nurseries along old Indian trails.
The Indians were also being assimilated through intermarriage and social change into the cultures of the new Americans. Or was it the other way around? Were the English, Scottish, French and other newcomers being assimilated into native American ways?
Southern Ohio, on the western or windward side of the Appalachians, was being settled by veterans of the Revolutionary War, who were given several acres of land for their military service.
Within this region, Revolutionary War vets founded the first college of the old “Northwest Territory,” Ohio University. Johnny Appleseed is known to have spent time in that area. In Athens County, where Ohio University is located, you will find the “Johnny Appleseed Memorial Highway” as well as a memorial stone and plaque about him in the city of Athens.
Actor Ed O’Neill, who played retired peace officer “Bill Jacks” in “John from Cincinnati,” as well as many other people involved in the American media, attended Ohio University.
Are these random factoids and coincidences? Or, is there meaning to them? Is there a pattern of any kind?
EMERGING ANSWERS, MORE QUESTIONS
“John from Cincinnati” tackled questions and discoveries about physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual pain and healing. It looked at the healing of the body, a marriage, a family and the pulling together of very different people for a common purpose … a purpose they frequently did not understand.
The show is about borders and boundaries, the interface and merging of different people and forces: San Diego and Mexico, land and Pacific Ocean, a retired peace officer and criminals, a caring physician and those who do their jobs through violence and force, three generations of a family, military veterans and civilians, well-to-do people and those of lower economic resources.
Other boundary lines were crossed by using people who were not professional actors for regular parts in the show, working hand in hand with experienced actors. Local people from Imperial Beach were hired to be on the crew as well as extras and in small parts.
The merging of these kinds of people and circumstances combined with the integration of our daily world and the spiritual or metaphysical world.
Our normal physics of time, space and gravity shared the same screen with anomalous aspects of these natural forces.
The minds and consciousness of the characters, viewers and people involved in creating the show were also affected by anomalous cognition – perception and understanding working in ways that are unusual, spontaneous or Zen-like, not necessarily logical but deeply rooted in the sources of consciousness and spirituality.
These factors are what dawned on U.S. military and intelligence personnel studying “remote viewing,” a type of ESP technique, during the top secret Project STARGATE in the ‘70s, ‘80s and ‘90s. The Army, Navy, Air Force, CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and civilian researchers working on this discovered that human perception can work in very unusual ways, very interesting and valuable ways.
“John from Cincinnati” tells a story of anomalous cognition bubbling up within the hearts and minds of the characters, and how they cope with resulting changes.
“John” himself was suspected of being a weirdo, an angel, an extraterrestrial, maybe mentally impaired or some kind of strange fella with special abilities.
Does the fact that he surfaces in the middle of one of the most important military and intelligence-related communities in the U.S. have any significance? Does this tell viewers that there are hopeful anomalous discoveries and processes going on within these components of our society and nation?
Is John an “intelligence agent” or “indigenous intelligence asset” of the unconventional kind?
And is the series “John from Cincinnati” a communication creation that has deep and vitally important things to say to people who may or may not be ready to understand what is being said, consciously or unconsciously?
Most Americans will probably agree that we now need greater “intelligence” in the many meanings of that word. Further “dumbing down” of the American people is not a direction that is worthwhile.
The creative experiment of “John from Cincinnati” has provided useful intelligence on many aspects our American media, TV viewers, our society, what is going on now and what is going to be happening.
There are indications that the frequency of synchronicity may increase. Anomalous cognition and ESP may become more common for average people. Angels, UFOs and extraterrestrials might even make more overt appearances – you never know.
Miracles, breakthroughs and paradigm shifts could be right around the corner, or coming in on the next wave.
source (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=35198)
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I think you are both right and both wrong. I don\'t see it as a simple definitive answer for one of the other.
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I think you are both right and both wrong. I don\'t see it as a simple definitive answer for one of the other.
I think this is very true.
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That was definately a good article. I liked this show too, but was very disappointed with the last episode. I felt like they had to just wrap it up without developing things further. I hated the stink**** speech part.
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America needed the "Idiot\'s Guide to Spirituality" before they could tackle this show. Milch put his spin on information that has existed since the dawn of consciousness. He just chose a super overt and pretentious way to present it. I enjoyed the cast, setting and general message, but I didn\'t appreciate Milch\'s enigmatic approach. I guess this is what happens when you mix big business with the new age.... Shame, this show could\'ve changed lives like Six Feet Under.
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The majority of the American public is dense and ignorant. It does not surprise me that most could not comprehend something like this.
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Spacey, the show\'s contents comprise of what my life revolves around and I HAD a difficult time figuring out stuff. Milch is a pretentious ass hole, end of discussion.
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The majority of the American public is dense and ignorant. It does not surprise me that most could not comprehend something like this.
^^^Ignorant comment.
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The majority of the American public is dense and ignorant. It does not surprise me that most could not comprehend something like this.
^^^Ignorant comment.
That it was.
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I like you Spacey. Admirable route my friend.
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I have no reason not to admit my error and ignorance. Its the least I can do.
My only defense is that I have never seen a full episode of John From Cincinnati because I could not fully grasp it and kept looking around at the other people watching, asking what the hell was happening.
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I have no reason not to admit my error and ignorance. Its the least I can do.
My only defense is that I have never seen a full episode of John From Cincinnati because I could not fully grasp it and kept looking around at the other people watching, asking what the hell was happening.
I always thought this was kinda part of the beauty to it, the "what the fuck is going on?!?" factor. It made me wanna keep watching.
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from PBS:
Tavis: I am pleased to welcome David Milch back to this program. For 25 years, he\'s been one of TV\'s most creative and prolific writers and producers, including seminal shows like "Hill Street Blues," "NYPD Blue," and more recently, "Deadwood." He\'s once again teamed up with HBO for his latest project, "John From Cincinnati. The show wraps up its first season this Sunday night. Here now, a scene from "John From Cincinnati."
[Clip]
Tavis: So I said to David Milch while the clip was running, “I hope you can explain that scene.” So, Mr. Milch, you\'re on.
David Milch: I don\'t think explanation is a relevant category. (Laughter)
Tavis: It is when you do a talk show.
Milch: Yeah, I guess you\'re right. I was going to offer a substitute for explanation. (Laughter) I had wanted, when I\'d first pitched "Deadwood" to HBO -
Tavis: And by the way, congratulations - six Emmy nominations next month for "Deadwood."
Milch: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Tavis: I\'m sorry, go ahead.
Milch: I had wanted to do a show about the genesis of faith. And it was set in Rome, and it was about city cops in Rome, and the first collar they made was St. Paul. And they were already doing a show set in Rome. And I was interested in faith as a regenerative and reorganizing principle for the community - in this case, Rome itself.
They were doing a show set in Rome, so I said, “Okay, how about gold?” An illusion agreed upon - rather than the cross, the abstract worth of a metal. Everyone agreeing and seeing how that reorganized a society. This is a show in which I tried - I wanted to come back to the original idea. If God were trying to make himself known with a particular urgency because the apocalypse is coming, and if the difficulty was not with his faculty of communication but rather with our capacity to understand.
Tavis: And I\'m with you so far. You choose, though, a dysfunctional surfer family as the vehicle to impart whatever it is that Milch is trying to impart to us - whatever the characters are trying to say to us. Tell me how that choice becomes -
Milch: The idea that the universe is a solid system but a series of waves. And that man is not an individual creature, but that his essence is carried from seeming individual to seeming individual is available to surfers if they aren\'t loaded and selfish or if they don\'t become addicted to the behavior of surfing itself. Doesn\'t often happen. (Laughter)
Tavis: You are not just a writer and a producer - every time we have conversations on this program, this is our third or fourth time doing this now and I\'m always honored to have you here - I\'m always fascinated to talk to you because I know I\'m going to learn something and be challenged in some sort of way. You are, in your own way, an intellectual. Which -
Milch: What do you mean, in my own way?
Tavis: Let me put it this way - I don\'t (unintelligible) many people like you in this business.
Milch: Thank you, sir.
Tavis: How about that? And so what fascinates me is how you get these profound, deep, provocative thoughts in your head that you then have to translate -
Milch: And how I can sell them to these people (laughs)?
Tavis: Exactly. I\'m like, who in the heck in the meeting understood what you said in this city, to begin with - sorry about that. But who understood what you were saying, and furthermore, to the question, how do you then take these high concepts and write a TV show that people like me - everyday people who aren\'t as bright - can actually follow the storyline?
Milch: Usually I check for my wallet after somebody says that. (Laughter) Everyday people.
Tavis: How do you bring it down to people who can actually follow what you were trying -
Milch: Well, there is a very cogent and articulate school of thought which says I didn\'t bring it down. (Laughter) And in fact, that question - the artist is one of God\'s surrogates, I believe. And what I was just saying about God trying to make himself understood, I believe is the artists\' challenge, as well. I can make myself understood at the sacrifice of the truth.
The challenge is to make oneself understood and to try simultaneously to stay true to one\'s sense of the deeper trues of experience. And I pray before I start to work every day. I won\'t think about what I\'m writing before I begin to write, and I ask to be a vessel of whatever intentions my experience has prepared me to make available to others.
Tavis: You said something a moment ago that I am certain that I will use, so let me just say now on national television that the first time I use the line that I want to reference here in a moment I will give attribution to David Milch. The second time I use it, it\'ll be something like, "I heard somebody say." And the third time I use it, it will be, "as I always say." (Laughter) But it\'s a great line.
It\'s a great line from David Milch, and the line was that the artist is God\'s surrogate. I love that prose. The artist is God\'s surrogate. There are some persons who I suspect though are listening right now who don\'t get what you said and what I certainly get who might think that sounds a bit arrogant.
Milch: Quite the opposite, I think.
Tavis: Right. I agree, but.
Milch: That is a question that anyone of faith asks himself in this version every day. Is the thing that I believe in most fundamentally absolutely useless in the society in which I am given to live? And the answer is, not if you act in faith. And so I must believe that I am God\'s surrogate in the sense that any of us, I believe, is put here to do his will as we understand it.
Whether we choose to or not is up to us, and so why surfers? Surfers are because my show - "Deadwood" was canceled, inexplicably to me. The suggestion -
Tavis: Six Emmy nominations, though.
Milch: The suggestion was made to me, why don\'t you do a show about surfers? Young, masculine, that\'s the demographic. Can you do that and have it engage your own spirit? "John From Cincinnati."
Tavis: "John From Cincinnati." And the title comes from?
Milch: The German mathematician Leibniz spoke of monads - indissoluble pieces of matter which God used to create the universe. And this guy\'s name on a credit card which appears in his hand is John Monad. And butchy surfer junky (unintelligible) member Monad, he says, "You look like the kind of guy that would come from Cincinnati." And John, who purifies the intention of anything that anyone says to him, says, "I am from Cincinnati."
Tavis: Yep. (Laughs) So, hence "John From Cincinnati."
Milch: Sure.
Tavis: Let me turn here.
Milch: It\'s a pleasure to see you again.
Tavis: I\'m always delighted to see you, and always challenged by our conversations, in a very good way. With all that you possess and hear in your head and in your heart, as evidenced by these conversations we have that always trip me up, are your talents, you think, being best used in the line of work that you are in? I wonder whether or not, with all that you have to offer, whether or not TV and film is the best way to you for you to use those gifts. Does that make sense?
Milch: Absolutely. I believe absolutely I am properly employed in television, because when you\'re as - I don\'t want to say crazy, but when you\'re the way I am and you have been successful, you embody the mystification of the businessman, the paradox of the businessman in dealing with the creative people.
Which is, I don\'t know what they\'re doing, they\'re children, they\'re idiots, you don\'t know what they\'re going to give you - and they leave me alone. Whether they\'re going to keep leaving me alone is always the question, (laughter) but better they leave me alone than the doctors.
Tavis: So where does "John From Cincinnati" go from here?
Milch: I don\'t know.
Tavis: You don\'t know? You never know till you sit down? Is that pretty much the way it works?
Milch: Oh, no, I know where "John From Cincinnati" would go if they\'re going to keep doing the show. What the fate of the show is going to be is still up in the air, and I\'m going to keep working and in some ways, I think all stories are the same story. So -
Tavis: Which means what, right quick?
Milch: Which means that if God is anywhere, he\'s everywhere, and it\'s my task - I said to a priest, as he was dying, “I\'m grateful to have lived long enough to be able to say to you that the shadow in which I always believed I and my characters must move is cast by God\'s sheltering hand.” So any story can let you do that.
Tavis: See why I like talking to this guy all the time? It\'s always for me - sometimes I do this stuff because I hope you enjoy it, and other times I do it just for me, and tonight was one of those conversations. David Milch, nice to see you.
Milch: My pleasure, sir.
Tavis: Always glad to have you here.
source (http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200708/20070809_milch.html)
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^^^^makes me happy i discontinued watching the show. interesting, but self-indulgent. i\'m not saying he\'s arrogant, he just has the luxury of being able to put his deepest beliefs (that are 100% a matter of opinion) and thoughts on HBO for the world to see. i\'m just not interested on his take, nor are my beliefs in the least bit correlated with his, so i\'d rather do something else with my time than try to pick apart his "soul" and figure out what the fuck is going on with John-Jesus Cincinnati-Christ.
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http://www.savejohnfromcincinnati.net/
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(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8907/johnmonadim4.jpg)
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There might actually be a better chance of a Jesus resurrection than this show coming back.
Thou shalt not renew shitty programs for a second season.
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wow, i can\'t believe all the hate here, i mean i think this is probably the most important work in the history of the medium of television, and i think it being cancelled says some bad things about America as a whole, and the higher ups at HBO, this was the most spiritual show on TV, and it will be missed by many people
"Mother of God Cass Kai"
also i dont think it\'s wrong to say alot of people are stupid? i mean i know alot of people who watched all 10 episodes, and didnt realize that John\'s father was the used car dealer, i mean how dense can you get? also anyone who didn\'t watch all ten episodes really shouldnt comment, i mean that like listening to 8 second of a breakfast song and then saying it sucks, you should really watch the whole "work" to judge it fairly
also the acting was brilliant, and the writing was brilliant, and milch is a fucking god
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Thou shalt not renew shitty programs for a second season.
The history of television programming contradicts thy edict.
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also the acting was brilliant, and the writing was brilliant, and milch is a fucking god
another reason the show didnt hold my attention. a lot of the acting was garbage, imo. like i said, this really is all a matter of opinion. i think a lot of people jumped on the J from C train to feel like they were a part of something "above" the common "stupid Americans" that I keep reading about. i understand the point, i just dont care for it. so, if you will, step down from your pedestal and realize that although Milch is a smart man, he\'s still just a man. i\'ll explain to friends, and people in general, why i like something, but i won\'t belittle them if they don\'t care for it....
that is unless, of course, if we\'re talking about The Breakfast. "TB Haters that way!! Stone them!!!" :doublewink:
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i dont think i\'m better or smarter than you but i\'d love to know who\'s acting you thought was sub-par? i found everyone to be at the top of the their game, not to mention alot of the deadwood cast, i dont know how you feel about that show, but it\'s considered one of the best shows of all time due to milch, and the acting and a host of other things.
i think the problem with this show was that people didn\'t want to try and undestand it, some episodes take multiple viewing to understand them, and are as dense, or more dense than most modern films, the same was true with deadwood, also most people don\'t like to think about or address the issues that the show brought up, ie.. 9/11, 9/11 truth movement, and the like, i feel most people didnt put enough in to get anything out, not to say i\'m smarter than anyone, but i do know alot about tv/film, and this show was without a doubt an original work of art, that some people LOVED, and some people didn\'t like, which i think is true of all great art, this wasnt an a>b>c show, it was all over the place, and may have been hard for some people to follow, but i think the world lost something very important when this show was cancelled
>-o
Thou shalt not renew shitty programs for a second season.
The history of television programming contradicts thy edict.
actually it\'s more like exact opposite, it you change it to third, or forth
AD
Deadwood
Carnivale
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ill write more later but off the top of my head i didnt care for butchie\'s acting, sean was horrible, and the girl that worked at the surf-shop that butchie had sex with (her name is slipping right now) was terrible. i thought cissy and mitch and ed o\'neill were very good, and i definitely enjoyed john.
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i liked butchie and kai, i can understand if you didnt though
also with shawn, i think alot of people seeit as bad acting but when you realize he\'s alot like john, i think it makes him much more believeable, imo
"What makes the danger of ethnic cleansing so much more acute in contemporary times, and one of the things I want to engage in this series, is the extent to which we now reside in virtual space, and the homicidal impulse that\'s generated by the violation of our virtual space. After the planes flew into the World Trade Center, we were subjected to the stimuli of those images in our virtual space over and over and over again. And because of the way we\'re set up physiologically, we experience those as continuous ongoing attacks. They predispose us to a violence toward the people whom we take as the perpetrators, because we can\'t individuate. And because of the way we receive information, we identify the attackers as Ragheads. Our willingness to respond in a genocidal fashion, I think, is not to be underestimated, and that\'s one of the reasons that this postulated force from elsewhere [John] has dispatched these various miracles – to arouse the recognition that the apocalypse is upon us."
MILCH\'d
"Here\'s the thing. If you\'ve fucked up unremittingly for decades you wake up and you say to yourself, \'How the fuck am I still alive? Don\'t they come and revoke the license at a certain point?\' That\'s what the universe gives us every morning. No matter how far we have veered from reverence for the miraculous fact that we exist in a universe that we don\'t understand, every day we get a chance to start over...
"John is the chance that the universe gives you every day. And commerce, in the form of Linc, has been persuaded to enlist itself in the service of a miracle. Now, Linc\'s going to think he\'s bullshitting, because no one is ever sure of their sincerity. The only way that you demonstrate your sincerity is in action. Whatever Linc thinks he\'s doing, however uncertain he is, he has decided to take action and enlist Jake in protecting John\'s identity, so that the anxiety that people feel when they see a plane flying into a building, which makes them want to kill a stranger, doesn\'t happen to John. And the way that commerce is going to try to protect John is by saying, \'All these miracles that have been going on? It was all Stink****. It was all bullshit. It was all commerce. It was a big f**king promotion.\' ... What we\'re seeing is the elaborate resourcefulness of commerce once it has devoted itself to attempting to protect the universe."
more Milch
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I have to agree with Gordo regarding Sean\'s acting... I thought it was abysmal.
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Great, great show. Whatever to those that didn\'t think so. It should have at least been given the chance of a second season, Carnivale was cancelled for basically the same reasons (too weird for people), and it was at least given a second to season to develop more. Milch is a genius.
HBO\'s newest show, can\'t think of the name of it right now but it\'s aboutr couples in sex therapy or something, has had fairly significantly less viewership than JFC, and it was renewed. Fuckin HBO, if I was subscribed I\'d cancel it.
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"Here\'s the thing. If you\'ve fucked up unremittingly for decades you wake up and you say to yourself, \'How the fuck am I still alive? Don\'t they come and revoke the license at a certain point?\' That\'s what the universe gives us every morning. No matter how far we have veered from reverence for the miraculous fact that we exist in a universe that we don\'t understand, every day we get a chance to start over...
"John is the chance that the universe gives you every day. And commerce, in the form of Linc, has been persuaded to enlist itself in the service of a miracle. Now, Linc\'s going to think he\'s bullshitting, because no one is ever sure of their sincerity. The only way that you demonstrate your sincerity is in action. Whatever Linc thinks he\'s doing, however uncertain he is, he has decided to take action and enlist Jake in protecting John\'s identity, so that the anxiety that people feel when they see a plane flying into a building, which makes them want to kill a stranger, doesn\'t happen to John. And the way that commerce is going to try to protect John is by saying, \'All these miracles that have been going on? It was all Stink****. It was all bullshit. It was all commerce. It was a big f**king promotion.\' ... What we\'re seeing is the elaborate resourcefulness of commerce once it has devoted itself to attempting to protect the universe."
more Milch
That\'s pretty cool right there. And for this reason I definitely see why people are pissed the show was cancelled. It\'s interesting though because the show is very much demanding of your time to understand it fully. I\'d have a hard time believing anyone here broke shit down internally like Milch did right here upon viewing. Yes, that is the draw for a lot of people I\'m sure, the \'mystery\' of it all. The irony is that, specifically here, Milch hasn\'t been resourceful in this commercial world to protect his own show. This might actually make him smile in an "I told ya\' so" sense.
Also, I feel like he plays both sides of the spirituality idea without knowing it. For those people who fuck up every day and keep on tickin, sure they could run a spiritual route and feel greatful for the mysteries of the universe. But to me it\'s demographically very, very specific here. You can\'t apply that rule to an enormous population that has swallowed the mercilisness of this world. To some extent I think his world is very much an American world.
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you guys realize shawn was just like john? well not just like, but even in episode one they both make the >-o on the gound, make you need to look at shawn more like you look at john and take his acting from that point of view.
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FYI: JOHN FROM CINCINNATI DVD 4/1
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6963/johnlz0.jpg)
amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/John-Cincinnati-Complete-First-Season/dp/B0010XB1WM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1207022016&sr=8-1)